flexbuster on 25/3/2008 at 00:45
Quote Posted by The_Raven
I'm interested in hearing of this supposed "evidence" they have about the flaws in the theory of evolution. They keep on saying this, and the most I've ever heard about their so called "evidence" is that there are gaps in the fossile record.
That and certain ideas about whether or not the complexity of the universe/life could have happened by chance, or somesuch.
Quote Posted by The_Raven
While evolution may be a very hard thing to prove, mostly due to the fact that you cannot directly observe it
Rise of extant species due to evolution, sure. But we've seen examples of evidence and possibly speciation pretty often, actually.
Quote Posted by The_Raven
Tolerance and undertanding are great things, maybe I'm just saying this because I was watching the South Park two parter "Go God Go" last week, but they can only go so far. This is very much a slippery slope argument; if you start allowing ID to be taugh to kids in public schools, then what? Maybe we should start showing both "sides" of the argument to the theory of gravity, electricity, and magnetism.
Yeah, my point is that the movie and the kind of people who support it TRY to bill the entire ID idea as scientific. And if it WERE legitimate science, then I'd be fine with it. The problem is, and what I was trying to show, is that this is complete bunk, and the whole science angle is just a way to shove their religious ideas down everybody's throat. Look up the book "Of Pandas and People" on wikipedia to see a pretty good example. You should be able to talk about legitimate science no matter what your ideas are, as long as you can back them up, but trying to pass off religion as science by changing a few words around is complete political horse shit. It's a deceptive PR campaign.
catbarf on 25/3/2008 at 03:11
Quote Posted by paloalto90
No.
And yet, at the same time, you claim that perfection equals no free will. You also claim that we are imperfect so we can have free will. By almost all theistic religions, God is perfect. So either God is a robot without thought, or God screwed up and created imperfect Man when the perfect version would do just fine. Take your pick.
Furthermore, is this to suggest that someone who is good and compassionate and never does anything hurtful or otherwise evil is a robot? That having the ability to choose between only several
good things makes them a mindless automaton? That the ability to deliberately commit evil acts is the definition of free will?
Quote Posted by flexbuster
but trying to pass off religion as science by changing a few words around is complete political horse shit.
This.
Rug Burn Junky on 25/3/2008 at 04:10
Quote Posted by Muzman
It does seem very weird from a foreign point of view and makes me worry about the separation of church and state (and how these groups clearly want that to end). This is where RBJ beats me with the constitution and all the recent tests thereof.
Nope, I'm even more worried about it than you are: I mean, fuck, I have to LIVE here.
Renzatic on 25/3/2008 at 05:57
Quote Posted by catbarf
That having the ability to choose between only several
good things makes them a mindless automaton? That the ability to deliberately commit evil acts is the definition of free will?
Lets push all the intelligent design evolution freethinking bright prolife fundie religious atheist rheortic bullshit aside and talk about the really basic philosophy for a second.
So...anyway...Free will, at least as far as I understand, is the choice between good and evil. If you could only choose the good-gooder-better-best options, then it could be said you're still tied to the will of God, and thus have no free will. It's a rather simple concept really. Hell, even I understand it...and I can barely read.
Ben Gunn on 25/3/2008 at 05:59
Quote Posted by flexbuster
Rise of extant species due to evolution, sure. But we've seen examples of evidence and possibly speciation pretty often, actually.
True- the most famous examples being those moths in the industrial era turning from white to black due to the soot on the trees, and the jerms that gets immuned to antibiotics.
The evidences in favour of evolution are overwhelming and anyone who begs the differ only practice wishful thinking.
flexbuster on 25/3/2008 at 07:36
I think one of the best examples of evolution is that of bacteria which can digest nylon, of all things. Something that wasn't even in the environment before.
Quote Posted by Renzatic
So...anyway...Free will, at least as far as I understand, is the choice between good and evil.
I thought you said you'd *drop* the religious bullshit.
There's no reason why "free will" need be defined as such a thing.
Also, the entire "free will" debate is sort of silly. We live in a deterministic world. Our minds are subject to that as much as anything else. The entire debate over "free will" is a red herring distracting people from discussing things of substance.
Ben Gunn on 25/3/2008 at 10:54
Quote:
Velociraptors: Today terrorize the goat herders of Puerto Rico and are rumored to guard the remains of the Ark on Mt. Ararat. They have become vicious since the Fall as the result of the effects of genetic entropy, making them too dangerous for the sort of interactive public experience we have in mind.
LMAO
Kolya on 25/3/2008 at 14:19
I've got a question: The demarcation line between science and religion is falsifiability. If creationists/IDers suggest that the creation of man or the universe by an intelligent being (god) was indeed a scientific theory, it would have to be falsifiable, that is open to empirical testing.
Now the base of religion is belief. If god's existence (and he has to exist to create something) is opened up to empirical testing, then belief becomes superfluous, since we will just look at the outcome of our tests. Are creationists heretics for trying to destroy this very base of religion? Or at least doing atheists all around a big favour?
