Expelled!: Or the battle for evolution heats up the teacup again?

Muzman on 22/3/2008 at 02:02

I don't know if ya'll keep up with this stuff, but I find it kinda fascinating.
After being given a heaping helping of "This IS SPARTAAA!!" in the (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover) Dover case, the Intelligent Design movement seems to have given up on the law for the time being and moved into marketing like proper Christians. Their new swing is a pop-doc entitled (http://chud.com/articles/articles/13996/1/BEN-STEIN-PROVING-THERE039S-NOTHING-INTELLIGENT-ABOUT-INTELLIGENT-DESIGN/Page1.html) Expelled!: No Intelligence Allowed narrated by deadpan Nixon-ite and perennial teacher in "youth comedies" Ben Stein. Apparently it's all about how various ID fundies have been pushed out of academia "for their beliefs" and how not long after evolution began to gain acceptance people like Hitler and Stalin began doing bad things. Coincidence?! I think not!
The armed forces of the internet have been girding their loins in anticipation of the release date next month, but along the way there has been a few interesting stories, most involving (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/) Dr PZ Myers.
First he was duped into being interviewed for the film by the producers, who presented it as a completely different film (echoes of "What the bleep do we know"). Complaining about it on his blog apparently got him blacklisted from any screenings. But he still managed to get an admission to a preview screening. The producer spotted him in the queue and had him tossed by security (film supporters say he was making trouble; his friends say, although a bit of firebrand in print he's the mildest guy around). The amusing part is the producer wasn't bright enough to take note of (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/expelled.php) who he had with him. And you can read the rest of the aftermath on his blog.
It's pretty funny, but the collective internet althiest backslapping does seem a little over the top considering what took place.
There's zealotry on both sides to be sure, but that ID lot are a creepy bunch; in the aforementioned trial (and what led up to it) and the production of this film it seems clear that any amout of lying and weaseling is fair if you're out to defeat the infidel. The producer of the film talked of 'our enemies' trying to sneak in and steal the movie and everyone must be vigilant. Something about that sort of language really gives a chilling glimpse into the tribal paranoia at the core of the cultural schism in the US. Maybe it's just me. When the 'reason army' masses for a swear-filled beatdown it usually does look rather gauche and over the top to me; as if reason can lose in this say and age, ho ho. But sometimes it really does look like it could go either way.
In this case it's just a silly doco, and not a very good one apparently (although the opinion split is predictable; scientists think it's crap, Christians think it's great. But despite the problem of prejudice, I've seen enough Christian films to know they generally are terrible terrible trash and Christians will always say how "wonderful" they are just because they say all the right stuff. So I'm going to lean towards the likelihood of it sucking.). But fireworks can be fun to watch right?

jtr7 on 22/3/2008 at 02:22

Yay! Another blanket-statement bigotry fest with offensive ignorance and hypocrisy on all sides!

History repeats-repeats-repeats itself, again, for the umpteenth^666 time!

I'm done. :cheeky:

Jennie&Tim on 22/3/2008 at 03:32

Gah! Tribalism, it ought to be outlawed. I get almost as irritated at the atheists who think all religious people are irrational ninnies as I do at the religious who think atheists are all self-centered know-it-alls.

I hope that the storms of ID will soon settle down into ineffectual ripples. Someday we'll be doing our own intelligent designing; but until then there's no respectable science to back it up.

catbarf on 22/3/2008 at 03:33

Quote Posted by PZ Myers

I'm still laughing though. You don't know how hilarious this is. Not only is it the extreme hypocrisy of being expelled from their Expelled movie, but there's another layer of amusement. Deep, belly laugh funny. Yeah, I'd be rolling around on the floor right now, if I weren't so dang dignified.

You see ... well, have you ever heard of a sabot? It's a kind of sleeve or lightweight carrier used to surround a piece of munition fired from a gun. It isn't the actually load intended to strike the target, but may even be discarded as it leaves the barrel.

I'm a kind of sabot right now.

They singled me out and evicted me, but they didn't notice my guest. They let him go in escorted by my wife and daughter. I guess they didn't recognize him. My guest was ...

Richard Dawkins.

He's in the theater right now, watching their movie.

Tell me, are you laughing as hard as I am?

This actually made me laugh out loud.

So, Creationists are being kicked out for continually and repeatedly bringing forth far-fetched beliefs with no supporting evidence and expecting them to be taken seriously by the scientific community. Furthermore, any evidence of any kind that happens to conflict with their 'knowledge' must be immediately disproved, disregarded, or twisted, so that their world-view remains intact. These views will be zealously held to until such time as conflicting evidence is insurmountable, at which point the relevant passages in the Bible will be explained away as metaphor and 'not to be taken literally'.

Go figure.

Muzman on 22/3/2008 at 08:20

Dawkins and Myers (http://richarddawkins.net/article,2389,Discussion-on-PZ-Myers-being-expelled-from-Expelled,Richard-Dawkins-PZ-Myers) recounted their experiences, presumably as convenient response to all the differing accounts cropping up from the filmmakers and others.
It'll be interesting if it turns out they pinched that Harvard cell animation or Harvard aren't too pleased about the way it's being used.

Ben Gunn on 22/3/2008 at 11:30

A little OT but could someone tell me why do all creationists look like psychopathic ventriloquist's dolls:
(http://youtube.com/watch?v=PMHB4_tSOf0)
(http://youtube.com/watch?v=et8JNZVq4xo) (3:04)

An evolutionary explanation will suffice.
Thanks

N'Al on 22/3/2008 at 13:08

(http://bible.cc/genesis/1-27.htm) The biblical explanation may be more apt here? ;)

catbarf on 22/3/2008 at 14:03

Quote Posted by N'Al

(http://bible.cc/genesis/1-27.htm) The biblical explanation may be more apt here? ;)

So a perfect, wonderful God creates imperfect Man, and then goes to blame them for his failures?

Ben Gunn on 22/3/2008 at 15:06

Quote Posted by catbarf

So a perfect, wonderful God creates imperfect Man, and then goes to blame them for his failures?

Precisely, god is evil.
And btw, satan is the good guy and stars in many a lovable, funny comedies.
And where is that dot flying over head when you need one?

Muzman on 24/3/2008 at 07:20

I might as well chuck in Dawkins' own account and review of the film, slightly more detailed than the video.
(http://richarddawkins.net/article,2394,Lying-for-Jesus,Richard-Dawkins)

He's his usual amusingly caustic self. While I think the amount of agro that gets thrown around precludes any dialogue between the sides, (and the fact that Dawks is an Oxbridge sounding pom as well is prettymuch guarateed to infuriate people even more) the ID/Creationists are repeatedly shown to be an underhanded manipulative sort of religious CIA, endlessly double dealing. The worst part is they'll largely get a free pass from believers because they're "good god fearing folk" or something, and therefore "better than those guys"
Watching all this I happened upon (http://richarddawkins.net/article,2360,Richard-Dawkins-on-The-Alan-Colmes-Show,Fox-Radio-Richard-Dawkins-Alan-Colmes) this interview Dawkins did recently where they talk a bit about how you've got to bang on about god in US politics or you're basically screwed and how in England (and here pretty much as well) it's a personal matter and using it so politically is beyond the pale. It does seem very weird from a foreign point of view and makes me worry about the separation of church and state (and how these groups clearly want that to end). This is where RBJ beats me with the constitution and all the recent tests thereof. And fair enough. But still, all the god fearing on the hustings does give ...pause.