Ostriig on 24/6/2010 at 16:44
Yeah, they immediately see you, arm the weapon and blurt out something along the lines of "Who's there?", point at which you release the lean key, returning to cover, then wait a few seconds to hear something like "Must've been my imagination", your all clear signal. That's what I meant when I said the AI is "uncertain of itself" and I did agree that the cover system is dumbing it down a notch, by removing risk altogether, but the point was that in most cases you could still go out and have a look at your nearby enemies without a severe risk of eating lead on the spot. Is my memory failing me?
As for crouched movement, slow as it was, it was still faster than NPCs walking, so with a little patience to position yourself properly and time it right, it was easy enough. More importantly, though, I'll ask again - what does this have to do with DXHR? Are you implying that guards in DX3 wouldn't hear you running up behind them like they did in DX1?
Papy on 24/6/2010 at 17:32
You cannot abuse leaning. If the enemy doesn't move, then I agree you can get away with it if you are willing to wait a bit of time (by the way, you can do the same thing simply by strafing, I'm not sure if leaning gives any real advantages). But with a patrolling enemy, there are a lot of times when you don't have the luxury to wait, as he will continue to walk toward you before he goes back into his fully unaware state. If you lean a second time to know if it's time to get out of cover, he won't be "uncertain" anymore and shoot at you immediately. Leaning allows one mistake once in a while, not two in a row.
As for crouching being easy enough... Even with a good observation (and I am a very meticulous player BTW), I certainly remember having to abort attacks and having to redo them from the start because I went out of cover too late. I am not implying that HR guards won't hear me, I am implying that my timing will always be right because I will have perfect information about the situation and so, contrarily to Deus Ex, success will almost always be guaranteed. To me, the difference between 3rd person cover and leaning is not "dumbing it down a notch", it is severely dumbing it down. Even IW didn't went as far.
Dresden on 24/6/2010 at 18:06
Wait if lean makes you visible, what's the point at all? Why not just pop out around the corner for a second?
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Hit button, receive kill in overlong third-person animation with zero player skill involved.
I like how your idea of taking away skill is adding an animation after the kill.
DDL on 24/6/2010 at 18:47
Quote Posted by Dresden
Wait if lean makes you visible, what's the point at all? Why not just pop out around the corner for a second?
Hell off a lot easier (press 'n hold lean button for a sec, release to return to hiding), faster, doesn't make footstep noises, and exposes less of your body to enemies.
EDIT: just checked: what leaning does is simply take your collision cylinder and slide it slightly to the side, so while your head is out in the open and your legs are behind the wall, your perceived 'cylinder' (since DX can only handle collision cylinders) is kinda between the two. Also, when you're standing and leaning, it reduces your collision height slightly to reflect your head dipping.
So you do actually expose less of your body to enemies, because it gives you a viewpoint of being X units out in the open, but only actually moves your detectable cylinder X/2 units, or thereabouts.
ZylonBane on 24/6/2010 at 18:50
Quote Posted by Dresden
I like how your idea of taking away skill is adding an animation after the kill.
You don't get it. The animation IS the kill.
DDL on 24/6/2010 at 19:04
Course, what they could do is make it so "press A to watch Adam do RLY COOL STUFFS and get a kill" requires really precise positioning.
Then, add in that failing to do so means pressing A simply results in you tapping the guard on the shoulder and him shouting "GOD DAMN TERRORIST" and shooting you in the face.
It'd almost the same, honest! :thumb:
Dresden on 24/6/2010 at 19:17
I'm not sure if you think that's a good thing or a bad thing. It's hard to tell in these threads.
Papy on 24/6/2010 at 22:57
Quote Posted by DDL
Course, what they
could do is make it so "press A to watch Adam do RLY COOL STUFFS and get a kill" requires really precise positioning.
From a interview :
Quote:
PCG: What are the rules for when you can do takedowns like the wrist-blade stabbing moves?
Dugas: The rules are very simple. You need to have the augmentation, and you need to get close to an enemy.
PCG: Does it matter whether they can see you or not?
Dugas: If they see you and you’re not dead, it’s going to be a different animation, because you’re up front so it’s not the same thing as surprising them from behind. [...] Basically you can come from the front and still do it, but you need, to come in from a corner and surprise him. If you come from afar and you try, he’s going to start shooting at you, and the chances that you survive are low. It can happen, but they’re very low.
But you can do them anywhere, anytime, it’s up to you.
Neb on 24/6/2010 at 23:29
At a guess, the trend towards more abstract player control is an attempt to make playing with a gamepad feel elegant.
Chade on 25/6/2010 at 00:03
At a guess, it's an attempt to make the game gratuitously satisfying.
Christ.
