Ko0K on 26/5/2007 at 02:00
Quote Posted by hopper
Both, to varying degrees.
Some of the taxes we pay on petrol may be dedicated to alternative energy and other "green" projects, but a much larger part goes to infrastructure construction and maintenance (some of which, like roads, makes good sense), or are simply used for general purposes. In most of Europe, at least, you can always use the argument that more taxes on petrol are a good thing, because they also serve to curb fuel consumption, which is good for the environment, right? Can't argue against doing well to the environment. Except that demand for fuel is terribly un-elastic, in the short term at least. Which is to say that if prices rise sharply, demand does not plunge accordingly, and vice versa. (Just ask fett how much less he used his car after the price increased by 50% within 3 months.) So that argument is dodgy at best, but people buy it, or at least grudgingly accept it.
So car owners have become cash-cows for the governments in Europe, to a larger degree than in the USA because a) voters there are much more tax-averse generally, b) environmental (if somewhat phony) arguments don't count as much there, and c) you do have a different geography, after all.
As for the oil price: Oil is easily the most important commodity in the world, and the most politicized. Oil is the one thing that everything else in our economy depends on. As it happens, most of the world's oil is consumed by Western or westernised industrial countries while at the same time most of it is sold by countries that have few other valuable exports, and are also politically volatile. So many of these countries joined OPEC for more bargaining power, only they can never agree on how much they think a barrel of oil should cost, because there's always too much politics involved. Some of the biggest oil exporters aren't members either, so OPEC can't freely dictate the oil prices, anyway. In recent years, China has been increasing its demand for oil vastly, so everyone is extracting on max capacity now and they still can't satisfy the worldwide demand. Iraq is in a complete chaos, Iran is being threatend with embargo, Nigeria is troubled by political unrest directly related to the distribution of oil revenues, etc.
In short, the markets are jittery as hell. The oil price has been fluctuating for decades, petrol prices have been swinging accordingly, and the oil companies have been making money anyway. Only they'd prefer it if the price would remain predictable and stable on a high level. Of course they're making more money than you can shake a stick at, and everyone in the business are riding the gravy train. But when you're saying they're "getting rich off the rest of the nation" you seem to imply a degree of sinister manipulation and control which isn't there.
That makes sense to me, but still, the fact of the matter is that the large profit margin the oil companies enjoyed raised serious concerns; serious enough for the congress to get involved. I could try to give them the benefit of my doubt and go so far as to guess that they are saving up for the future. Honestly, though, I believe they pushed what the market could bear because they're greedy.
(edit) I did listen to a spokeswoman for the oil industries on the radio, and I'd have to admit that I could reasonably believe what she said, too. However, how often do you see people associate the oil companies with good business practice? If they haven't done anything wrong, then they surely suck at convincing people otherwise.
SD on 26/5/2007 at 02:07
Quote Posted by Taffer_Boy_Elvis
When one of you blokes from across the pond say things like petrol, we get it and don't bother asking for clarification.
That's because there's no confusion there. Petrol is just petrol. Petrol doesn't mean either petrol or cheese. It's an unambiguous term.
Anyway, what do you guys call gas over there - the sort that comes down a pipeline and allows ovens to run, I mean?
aguywhoplaysthief on 26/5/2007 at 03:13
If I had dollar for everytime I've read or heard the phrase "Bush and his cronies", I'd be a motherfucking millionaire.
Pyrian on 26/5/2007 at 06:32
Quote Posted by SD
Anyway, what do you guys call gas over there - the sort that comes down a pipeline and allows ovens to run, I mean?
Gas. :cool:
Kyloe on 26/5/2007 at 07:37
We call it
Benzin, because we fill up our Mercs with it.
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
If I was king I'd kill off road tax, road pricing schemes, tolls and what not; then stick the whole lot as a bit extra on petrol tax.
We went the other way round and decreased taxes for trucks in favour of an autobahn toll. That way, foreign trucks pay their share in upkeeping the roads.
Jakeyboy on 26/5/2007 at 07:44
Maybe if you yanks had to pay a bit more for your fuel, you'd drive more economical cars, and maybe even think twice about unnecessary journeys?
Ultraviolet on 26/5/2007 at 08:34
Quote Posted by Jakeyboy
Maybe if you yanks had to pay a bit more for your fuel, you'd drive more economical cars, and maybe even think twice about unnecessary journeys?
For one, fuck you very much for generalizing. Gas costs me enough to keep me from getting my car fixed -- and it's no guzzler, but it could be a lot better. IF I COULD AFFORD TO GET IT FIXED. It's a goddamn Neon, for Christ's sake. I give the finger every time I see a Hummer driving around. It's not a matter of "yanks" being all cowboys who run around shooting their guns in the air and smoking gasoline-doped cigars and bathing in gasoline and having gasoline spending parties. Yeah, we have our share of dumbfucks. You have CHAVS. Not sure what's worse...
And for two, I started that last one with "for one" with no intention of ever starting up a "for two." So... fuck. Oh wait, I thought of one. Coopers are goddamn ugly. All the fuel efficiency in the world wouldn't get me behind the wheel of one of those.
Also, your "maybe if" is completely disproven by reality: The SUV trend has actually continued going upward, even though gasoline prices have quadrupled in ten years. I live in a redneck town. Cars are in the minority at about one in four. We don't have a public transportation system. We've got some independent transportation providers, though, that charge plenty and provide shit service. Shit, our fucking crossing signs don't even work right. I hate people who have money for not spending it on what's best for the world around them.
Um... end rant?
Jakeyboy on 26/5/2007 at 10:10
Quote:
For one, fuck you very much for generalizing.
Guilty as charged.
Quote:
Gas costs me enough to keep me from getting my car fixed -- and it's no guzzler, but it could be a lot better. IF I COULD AFFORD TO GET IT FIXED. It's a goddamn Neon, for Christ's sake. I give the finger every time I see a Hummer driving around. It's not a matter of "yanks" being all cowboys who run around shooting their guns in the air and smoking gasoline-doped cigars and bathing in gasoline and having gasoline spending parties.
I don't understand how much money it costs to get your car fixed in the US, or whats wrong with your car, but I find it hard to believe that you spend more on petrol than you would on getting it fixed and going easy on the juice for a couple of weeks.
Quote:
Yeah, we have our share of dumbfucks. You have CHAVS. Not sure what's worse...
Quit saying Chav already
Quote:
Coopers are goddamn ugly. All the fuel efficiency in the world wouldn't get me behind the wheel of one of those.
You'd rather not be able to afford a car than drive one?
Over here I'm currently paying 98.9p/litre (about $7.50/gallon I think) for petrol, weekly I'm spending about £30 on petrol. But I'm spending £22/week on insuring the fucking thing. So if petrol cost the same here as there, I'd be spending more on insurance than petrol. I'm saving up to get an LPG conversion, which is about 40p/litre, and gives about 10% loss in power and is about the same on consumption, from what I've been told. Emissions are less too. I remember (
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=108992) this being posted a while ago. If that kind of car gets produced I'd get one despite the fact it would probably look like a piece of shit. 330 to the gallon? Bring it on!
Starrfall on 26/5/2007 at 16:12
I don't know about you guys but I complain because prices have more than tripled since I started driving. If the cost of electricity tripled I'd complain about that too whether or not someone else was paying more than me.