BEAR on 18/9/2008 at 14:32
Quote Posted by Stitch
HRR HRR SO MANY SPECIES SO LITTLE TIME
You huffing meat trolls are as bad as preachy vegetarians.
And there are a lot more of them.
Also: is anyone actually surprised by this? This is the kind of thing that people get all upset about but in a week you'll forget and go back to doing whatever you did before, its just how we work. Its like when you hear of anything happening that nobody likes to admit happens, if you were to be at all times aware that such things happened it would probably take a toll on the psyche.
If you think this is the first or last, you are sadly mistaken. If you even think this is all that rare, you are sadly mistaken. This is why we didn't take our bulls to the stockyard and kill them ourselves. As long as we treat this like the actions of individuals and not humanity as a whole, nothing will get done about it. This is a trend of desensitization that goes on in a lot of places (or any place where one has to deal with such things), and unless we acknowledge that and put strict measures in place to observe and enforce rules, nothing will be fixed. Its funny that in America we put so little thought into what we put into our bodies, when it probably has the biggest effect (or one of the biggest) on us of all the things we do.
The whole vegan or vegetarian philosophy doesn't really hold up, and regardless of where it is right or wrong, people aren't going to stop eating meat (and I'm not sure they should). I think we need to have less illusions of what that means in terms of animal suffering, assuming that actually matters to most people. I think people have as little problem with it as they do because of the lack of knowledge of what actually goes on.
The richer people are (in general), the more meat they tend to eat (at least throughout history), and as 3rd world nations grow in size and wealth the demand for meat goes up. As the population in general goes up, you really have to start questioning our methods of meat production. I don't have anything ideologically against meat, but I think we need to be more aware of how we treat our food affects its quality (in terms of hormones and adrenaline and stress), and not just plug our ears and close our eyes.
This won't do anything though of course, 1 week and it will be business as usual. Contrary to being a depressing thing, it speaks to our progress that this sort of thing actually causes uproar. One of the many examples of how things are currently a lot better than in the past, contrary to what people like to think. Animal cruelty has been at times public entertainment (I know it is some places still), but for the most part people are pretty sensitive to real violence and cruelty, which is a good trend.
Starrfall on 18/9/2008 at 14:40
Quote Posted by Ko0K
It sounds like a NorCal thing to be able to have that option in the first place. The only thing that comes half-way close to it we have down here is Trader Joe's, and there's still no guarantee that their pork chops didn't have broom handles stuck in their vaginas before they got shrink-wrapped.
While I admit that I am totally (and happily) spoiled by the quality of food available here, I don't believe we have a monopoly, just that we have a stronger concentration of "good" stuff.
But I've gotten the impression that as demand builds, availability is improving. So start agitating, people - ask your supermarket of choice for better products, google around to see if there are any local ranches who maintain good practices that you can buy from directly (or that sell to stores in town). Find a farmer's market - the ones around here usually have a meat vendor or two. Join a food coop or CSA if you can find one.
It costs more. It probably should - meat is not always the most efficient food, especially when the animals are treated well. But I'd rather pay more for better taste/quality and the ability to know that the animals aren't being treated like shit. My bacon is (
http://www.animalwelfareapproved.org/uploads/docs/Animal%20Welfare%20Approved%20Pig%20Standards%20Version%201.01%2005.21.08.pdf) happy (pdf) before it's slaughtered and if that costs an extra dollar a pound then so be it.
((
http://www.animalwelfareapproved.org/) This page has a tool that will help you find products approved under those standards in your state.)
BrokenArts on 18/9/2008 at 14:50
I'm with you Starrfall. I'd rather pay more, for better quality products, and knowing that *hopefully* the animals really are treated better.
We've been going more and more to our local Dallas Farmers market downtown. Friday and Saturdays there is a vendor that sells fresh farm raised meats, and raw cheeses. Good stuff. Good excuse also to get out and see what the other vendors are carrying. I'd rather support the local farmers. I do believe that is becoming more and more popular, to support the local farmers. Damn well should be.
Yeah, I can go to whole foods, closer to go to the farmers market for me.
Carini on 19/9/2008 at 20:37
Quote Posted by Vivian
RE: research animals, in my experience you have to jump through an entire field of ethics hoops before you get anywhere near a live animal in any experiments. They're pretty deadly serious about it. Suggesting that the kind of behaviour mentioned in the first post is commonplace in scientific research is more doctor robotnik than close to reality.
Unless you work on arthropods. no one gives a shit about them.
QFT
Vivian is spot on in his assessment. I think suggesting that animal research can be lumped in with "cane fucking pig farmers" is a gross misrepresentation.
Aerothorn on 19/9/2008 at 21:53
While I'll be the first to admit that PETA does a lot of useful stuff, and overall hurts the movement to treat animals humanely, these undercover ops of theres are pretty good.
Takes a lot of restraint to be one of the undercover guys.
Kolya on 19/9/2008 at 22:07
In before PigLick!
PigLick on 20/9/2008 at 01:01
comin at ya!
catbarf on 20/9/2008 at 01:27
Quote Posted by Koki
Yeah, thanks for ruining the thread. Now it will be all about people crying their brains out on how she should be electrocuted as well. Or worse.
Are all British 'children' so susceptible that they will electrocute a kitten because a guy told them not to?
I mean, FFS, there are a hell of a lot more stressful situations than being in a room with a kitten. I understand the extenuating context, but her reaction is just surreal.
Vivian on 20/9/2008 at 11:37
Yes, because we teach them to be exactly like that in britain, you big racist
Kolya on 20/9/2008 at 12:27
These lessons are part of the holidays etiquette program, I suspect.
