Starrfall on 23/9/2006 at 16:54
When I think "politicians who have an interest in keeping people afraid" Al Gore is totally the first person I think of.
Swiss Mercenary on 23/9/2006 at 18:48
Quote Posted by SlyFoxx
Do you realise that CO2 is a by-product of any land animal?
Do you realise that our industries are putting out somewhat more CO2 then land animals do? Or that deforestation reduces the size of our carbon sinks?
Quote:
Do you realise there have been periods of history where levels were well over 1000ppm for over 100 million years?
Those periods of history sure as hell weren't brought about in some 400 years of work.
Even if right now, the amount of CO2 that's been put into the atmosphere by human activity is not significant to affect climate change, consider this:
What about in 40 years time? What about in 80 years time? With the current rate of industrial growth, sooner or later, its going to start hurting.
Quote:
So lets focus on reducing the nasty by-products of modern civilization. But lets not loose sight of the positive aspects of modern civilization and throw the baby out with the bath water.
I don't think anyone takes that viewpoint seriously. Reducing greenhouse gas emissions doesn't mean returning to caveman life, you know.
Jakeyboy on 23/9/2006 at 22:28
The cause of changes in the climate don't really matter, when you consider that all that could come of proving it was natural was that we'd declare ourselves blameless and still embrace the effects. How silly.
I'm not sure how much can actually be done in the favour of the human race, supposing this is a manmade change, but I guess we embrace the effects anyway, only saying "How was I supposed to know that?!?!?". How silly.
Wasn't there a bloke who designed a water powered car and the oil companies paid him off? couldn't they make shitloads out of that? this could be lies of course.
Swiss Mercenary on 23/9/2006 at 23:28
Quote Posted by Jakeyboy
Wasn't there a bloke who designed a water powered car and the oil companies paid him off? couldn't they make shitloads out of that? this could be lies of course.
Water powered car which burns gasoline to break down the water into H2 and O2, right?
Rogue Keeper on 25/9/2006 at 07:22
Let's not loose sight of the positive aspects of SlyFoxx and throw the baby out with the bath water. :sly:
There are basically two kind of politicians in this issue. The first group wants to keep people afraid. The second group wants to keep people ignorant. Both groups promote their agenda for their political gain.
Unfortunately social change on large scale is impossible without politicians.
Actually, it is... we can tear apart all social and political structures and "go live to caves". :)
The choice is ours.
RyushiBlade on 25/9/2006 at 18:40
Quote Posted by demagogue
...which is to at least avoid the "catestrophic" end of the spectrum over 500ppm (it'll hit 400 in about 10 years).
I'm all for cutting emissions and saving the environment, but I'm against people giving half-truths. Yes, it will hit 400ppm in about ten years. But it will take atleast 50 additional years to hit 500ppm. So the reality is that right now, it's not a dire need. But the other half (I love halves) of reality is that if we don't do something about it now, it'll be too late. That's why I'm glad nations are atleast starting to recognize the dangers of industrialization.
Quote Posted by SlyFoxx
Do you realise there have been periods of history where levels were well over 1000ppm for over 100 million years?
As has already been said, this is true but the change didn't occur in such a short period of time. This means that while the world will still be inhabitable, it won't exactly be comfortable. Now for some scary science courtesy of Discovery Channel. If anyone else has researched more into this, feel free to tear my post apart:
The Permian Extinction occured before the dinosaurs ever lived. This extinction killed an amazing 95% of all animals. Why? Current theory says that massive volcanic activity in present-day Serbia released tremendous amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere (hint hint.) This sudden increase raised the Earth's average temperature over time by five degrees.
The example they gave here was "New York would look like the Arabian Desert." I don't know if this is true or not. Still, the world will be VERY hot, but atleast inhabitable.
Here's the really
nasty part. Beneath the ocean floor are vast sheets of methane hydrate. This compound is kept only a few degrees below its freezing point. Once the climate reaches a 5 degree increase, this methane is suddenly and quite explosively melted.
Huge pockets of methane gas will erupt through the ocean and into the air. Methane is 23 times more potent than CO2. With the sudden influx of Methane, the world's average temperature will rise ANOTHER five degrees. We'd all be dead. Sure, a few people may be able to live somewhere around the South Pole, maybe. It would all be melted by that time.
So anyway, that's a logical and solid hypothesis on the permian extinction. Imagine 95% of all life dying today. Doesn't sound too fun, does it? And they say that if current trends continue, that deadly 5 degree increase will be reached sometime around 2100. There's a link about methane (
http://www.mediacynic.com/cgi-bin/mediacynic.pl?cynic=721061) Underwater and in Siberia's melting (
http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2006/09/post_3.php) permafrost.
All temperatures Celsius.
RyushiBlade on 25/9/2006 at 18:51
Sorry to double-post, but this differs a bit from my long-winded previous post...
Quote Posted by SlyFoxx
And do you still drive a car and heat your house? If so, how? Yeah, I thought so.
Heating and cooling your home with fossil fuels is ridiculous. Geothermal warming and cooling--that is, sinking pipes deep into the ground and using low power fans to distribute the air--is an amazingly efficient and cheap method which is, unfortunately, little used. Though it costs twice as much to install (something like $8,000?) you'll regain the lost money in about ten years. And remember that homes usually appreciate in value the longer you keep them anyway. This method can also be used nearly anywhere. The minimum sized hole needed to be dug is something like six inches across.
Agent Monkeysee on 25/9/2006 at 19:21
Quote Posted by RyushiBlade
Geothermal warming and cooling--that is, sinking pipes deep into the ground and using low power fans to distribute the air--is an amazingly efficient and cheap method which is, unfortunately, little used.
Isn't that highly dependent on geological factors though? My understanding is it's only viable in certain areas due to the composition of the ground, ease of drilling, etc.
TTK12G3 on 25/9/2006 at 19:26
As was mentioned before, no one will act to change unless they see some gain in it.
Geothermal energy seems very appealing, but even if everyone were willing to line up and change, there would still be the problem of distribution. Although there are several processes that exist to make the most out of whatever heat is there, the geothermal option is simply not available to everyone. That, and geothermal energy is not renewable and exploited areas tend to "cool down" after a period of time, even with careful management. Although, to be fair, they do last for decades.
Oh, and love the apocalyptic post, RB.;)
SlyFoxx on 25/9/2006 at 19:47
Quote:
RyushiBlade...............Geothermal warming and cooling--that is, sinking pipes deep
Love the idea! It's just the age old problem of up front cost vs. cheap fuel oil or gas. Most won't go for it until it's a more economically viable option or they have no other choice.
I'll have to read up on it.
