fett on 23/9/2006 at 02:54

---

I'll let more concise members elaborate on that question.

In the meantime, I converted from being an enviornmentalist 'wacko' in the mid-90's after reading Crichton's (shut up) 'State of Fear'. Not that the novel converted me, but it caused me to ask hard questions about global warming, specifically about the industry that has risen up around panic conservation issues. I did some research, didn't like what I saw, and though it didn't totally change my mind, I'm much more moderate now than I was.

I have several friends that were pretty hardcore skeptics about global warming, until the hurricanes last year. We all went to Mississipi together to do relief work and it's pretty damn hard to blow off global warming after seeing the aftermath of something like that.

SD on 23/9/2006 at 04:11

---

Wow. Of all the cockeyed bullshit logic I've ever seen on the forums, that's the most ludicrous.

Global warming has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. Anyone who fails to realise this is a dribbling moron.

BEAR on 23/9/2006 at 04:58

---

Sounds like grade-A propaganda. America isnt going to do jack about emissions until it makes money, aside from that it very might be too late what with all the positive feedback taking place, according to the new scientist as much money should be spent on preparing for the effects as prevention.

Oh jesus slyfoxx, what in the fuck are you talking about. This is the problem: scientists prove global warming totally, the only evidence against it was reconciled and found to go along with all the other proof of global warming, but as long as someone goes out and says "its not totally proven" just fucks it up because so many uninformed people will believe that shit when its totally wrong.

As far as im concerned, we're fucked. Climate scientists recently gave the gulf stream a 50% chance of shutting down within the next 100 years. That means we = fucked, maybe not total extinction but it would majorly fuck things up. Im not the stark raving mad surivalist or anything, but the positive feedback in the system at this point is enough to keep global warming going even if we totally stopped all carbon emissions at this point, we need to start preparing as well as trying to at least lessen the extent.

Its hillarous, the New Scientist had a profile of the major global warming opponates recently, all climate scientists or scientist of one sort or another, and all of them had ties to oil companies of some kind, many of them consultants.

mopgoblin on 23/9/2006 at 09:39

---

It's clear from that last sentence that you don't understand meteorology, chaos theory, dynamical systems, or probability theory. Precisely predicting the state at a specific time is a completely different problem from predicting long term trends, and by trying to equate the two you just look like an idiot to anyone who has any idea about how this stuff works.

SlyFoxx on 23/9/2006 at 16:05

---

Of course I know the difference between a climatologist and meteorologist and what that entails. :rolleyes: I was making an example about how scientists (who are some of the smartest people on the planet) don’t know everything. But as usual there are people here who see things that were not written or take a comment about predicting the weather and use that as an opportunity to puff up their chest and pronounce me an idiot and use as many big words as they can.

As I said before. I'm all for less pollution in the atmosphere and am glad that things like cars get better mileage and producing fewer emissions. In the last 13 years me and the wife have driven less than 100,000 miles. I keep my Jeep and Aspire in good running order. I have an efficient gas furnace and don't jack up the heat in the winter. I run AC in the summer only when the temp gets in the mid 90's. I use those special 13 watt bulbs to keep my energy use down. So in short, I try and do my part. But I'll admit it's more about saving me money. Enlightened self interest ranks right up there with gravity as a universal force.;)

But there are so many doom and gloom mongers out there and they have every interest in keeping people afraid. People like Al Gore and his new docudrama. People who have a vested economic interest in keeping people afraid. Always follow the money before you buy into anything completely.

You know what? It's easy to be afraid. It's human nature to focus on the negative. You don't go to the book store and find "The Power Of Negative Thinking" section. You couldn't make a dime trying to sell that book.

Now for some numbers. 280ppm CO2 to 380ppm CO2. A 35% increase since the pre-insustrial revolution. The figure of 560ppm is bandied about like some sort of point of no return. OK fine, it's an increase. But do you know that water vapor is the #1 green house agent in the atmosphere? Do you know that one of the goals of the clean air act is to have cars produce only water vapor and CO2? Do you realise that CO2 is a by-product of any land animal? Do you realise there have been periods of history where levels were well over 1000ppm for over 100 million years?

So lets focus on reducing the nasty by-products of modern civilization. But lets not loose sight of the positive aspects of modern civilization and throw the baby out with the bath water.