Goldmoon Dawn on 7/5/2013 at 22:29

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And Richard Garriott handed the Ultima series itself off to Warren Spector, while he took to overseeing LGS. The entire HUD of Ultima Underworld I was lifted from the Might and Magic III HUD. lol It seems that I am the only crpg fanatic present on these here forums. Other than the obvious injokes, what Thief "borrowed" or in my opinion "evolved" were the concepts of grandly designed environments built for exploration and the notion of progressing through a game while being mindful of others. :) ...and the Hammers. They are a clear "throwback" to the Ultima guards and the way they talked. Their colors are even red/white. The guards at the very start of Dark Project are arguing over "the good old days". I never said that the intentions werent mischievous. Perhaps LGS thought they were in fact better, and laid the builders into the foundation of their own works. Borrowing from other games/rivals single handedly kept the crpg movement afloat back in the 80's, if anyone recalls. At the very least, people owe it to themselves to play Ultima 4, 5, and 6. Or start with 6 for the full blown effect. Its all there man. lol

Goldmoon Dawn on 7/5/2013 at 22:38

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They also had useless knives, forks, plates, spoons, carrots, and bread you could pick up, which was one of Lord Britishes crowning achievements in the Ultima series. It would be foolish to think that they did those things completely spontaneously?! After all, Lord British was kinda known for his delusions of grandeur. I think its high time to give up. Ta

heywood on 8/5/2013 at 08:51

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I'll take your point about the appearance of the Hammerites, and there's probably other minor Ultima throwbacks or homages in Thief that I wouldn't have picked up on. There's obviously a generic medieval fantasy influence in The Dark Project, but compared to Ultima there was a relatively modest amount of magic, monsters, and dungeon crawling. And less of that in Metal Age. But the main difference is that the Thief games are linear and mission-driven, not open world, and not RPGs. The legacy of the Ultima series (and particularly Underworld) is much more obvious in The Elder Scrolls series and other open world fantasy RPGs than any games LGS or it's spin-offs subsequently made.

I guarantee you're not the only CRPG fan here. I love CRPGs, but I'm not that keen on fantasy stories or magic, and while an open world is fine I get bored by sandbox gameplay. So my taste in CRPGs is somewhat selective. I tried a few games from the Ultima main series but didn't finish them. I couldn't stay interested long enough to finish Morrowind or Oblivion either. I did enjoy Ultima Underworld, but that was mainly because first person action/interaction was a novelty at the time and because it introduced "interactive simulation" elements into what was becoming a stale genre. My kind of RPGs are SS2 (favorite), VTM - Bloodlines, and Fallout 1&2.

Thirith on 8/5/2013 at 14:12

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@Goldmoon Dawn: If ever they do a Room 237-style documentary on games, there'll be an entire section dedicated to you. And I'm saying that as someone who's played Ultima games since U4, including the spin-offs and Underworlds. Seriously: yes, there are nods to the good old days of Origin in the Thief games, but your claim that Thief is deeply influenced, in concrete ways, by Ultima are pretty silly. Much of what you mention (e.g. the way the guards speak) is in no way specific to Ultima and Thief - they both go back to the same mock-Shakespearean, Ren Fair clichés. It's your "I was there, man, I know how it was" arrogance mixed with your rather tenuous "Everything's connected" spiel that makes it very difficult to take you seriously, in this discussion as much as in others. Plus, it's making it embarrassing for others to admit that they're Ultima fans.

SubJeff on 8/5/2013 at 22:13

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Truth hurts.