EM Teaser & Site Updates - Official Trailer Up & Latest PREVIEWS & Blog Fan Kit - by thiefessa
Darkness_Falls on 4/5/2013 at 21:47
Quote:
Thiefessa wrote: Just as some very new fans may not know about the older games or the astounding fan missions available to play, we share information from TTLG with them on the Eidos boards.
They don't know about the older titles because there was no "III" in the last title and there is no "IV" in the upcoming title.
Tomi on 4/5/2013 at 22:17
Quote Posted by Dia
But that's the point, Tomi; they
already have changed everything from classic Thief. Garrett is
not the Garrett we've known and loved, either in appearance or voice. Classic Thief (and I'm deliberately not including TDS here)
didn't have auto-switching from 1st to 3rd person, parkouring sequences, wallhugging, timed speed-runs, and severely limited exploration of rooftops and city streets. Classic Thief
had magic, and burricks, and zombies and haunts. Besides, EM has already stated more than once that they are 'reinventing' Thief, and NOT making it just for the Thief fans.
You make some good points there, but is that really changing
everything from classic Thief? We still don't know a lot of things for sure, and things like "severely limited exploration" is just speculation at the moment. (I don't think that there ever was much to
explore in classic Thief anyway.) The new Thief will have magic too, or how do you explain that Focus thing for example? And wasn't there a burrick trophy or something in one of the screenshots? As for the (possible) lack of zombies and haunts, there were hardly any zombies and haunts in TMA, and there were no robots in TDP, but it didn't ruin those games (although the robots in T2 nearly did it for me, but that's another story :p). Changing things isn't always bad...
"Parkouring sequences" could be a
good thing, it doesn't
have to mean Assassin's Creed style of crazy climbing or Prince of Persia style wall-running. At least I would expect the best thief on the planet to be able to pull off a few moves that some Average Joe can't do.
"Timed speed-runs" probably sounds worse than it is. I remember one of the game devs describing an event in the game where some gate closes at midnight, and the player will have to rush to get there in time... If the player is fast enough and succeeds, then they'll have an easier entrance for the next mission or some little bonus. But there will always be another way, I'm assuming that you don't get an instant "GAME OVER!" screen if you're too slow, so where's the harm in that? I'm sure that there'll be little rewards like that for those players (like me) who want to explore every corner of the map and find all the little secrets.
Dia on 5/5/2013 at 00:05
I think it all boils down to what some Taffers think are acceptible changes and what some think are not. There is an article, but damned if I can find it now, that plainly stated that rooftop travel and exploration of the city's streets will be seriously limited - something to the effect that EM thought most players nowadays would find it boring or too slow-paced, which was why they were going with parkouring and speed-runs - but that you'd be able to explore something called 'the Hub' a little more extensively. Sorry Tomi, but if I have to trade being able to extensively explore rooftops and the streets of the City (at my own pace) for parkour moves that NuGarrett automatically makes when triggered and speed-runs as well, then no, I can already tell you that the sacrifice won't be worth it in my opinion. To me, part of the charm of classic Thief was being able to explore and take my time in doing so. EM has already stated that while T4 will still be a game about stealth, they are also making sure they satisfy the action-oriented gamers as well. And though automatic, slo-mo takedown scenes were novel and interesting at first in DX:HR, they lost their charm after the umpteenth time and just became annoying. Unfortunately EM has stated that there will be take-down scenes in T4 now as well.
EM has also stated that they're going to downplay magic as much as possible and have their Garrett rely more on 'tools' (they haven't really clarified that yet). The whole 'Focus' thing sounds like it may be connected to NuGarrett's NuEye, which EM has also referred to as mechanical, so it doesn't sound as though there'll be any magic in connection with that either. I respect the fact that while some of these changes may appeal to you, they really are a serious turn-off for me. I wholeheartedly agree, however, that we just don't know enough of the details yet.
SubJeff on 5/5/2013 at 01:14
And yet I've read that one of the most interesting things will be the size of the city that you can freely explore.
Dia on 5/5/2013 at 02:01
Rats. I KNOW I read in an article (which I honestly can't find again) that players were going to be limited to the amount of time they spent on the rooftops and city streets. EM had said that in their opinion players didn't want to spend time dallying on the rooftops or in the streets of the City below, which is why they've included the parkour-style rooftop method of travel as well as the speed-runs through the City streets. They also said that there would be a 'Hub' wherein you could explore to your heart's content (and wherein the 'Hub' rather sounded like another sop to die-hard Thief fans who actually liked rooftop travel). A little help here finding that article again, please?
Goldmoon Dawn on 5/5/2013 at 02:29
Quote Posted by Tomi
(I don't think that there ever was much to
explore in classic Thief anyway.)
Blasphemy! :ebil:
jtr7 on 5/5/2013 at 02:40
That explains some things, don't it? People like that don't know what we're talking about because they don't know at all! :sweat:
Again, it's not our fault they don't know what we know full well, and the exploration was never some secret aspect to begin with! Ridiculous.
Goldmoon Dawn on 5/5/2013 at 03:38
Multiple pathways provided for excellent replay value and further exploration. Now, we can look back at Thief: The Dark Project with nostalgic overtones when thinking of the masterful design of those 1st person Missions. Deadly tried to cash in on it, and now these guys are. :ebil:
SubJeff on 5/5/2013 at 07:53
Quote Posted by Tomi
I don't think that there ever was much to
explore in classic Thief anyway.
Are you kidding me?
There was loads to do. The simplest route from start to finish missed out TONS of cool stuff in both Thief 1 and 2. Thief 3 was seriously lacking in this aspect.
Exploring is a pretty fundamental element of the game!
Tomi on 5/5/2013 at 09:26
Quote Posted by jtr7
That explains some things, don't it? People like that don't know what we're talking about because they
don't know at all! :sweat:
Again, it's not our fault they don't know what we know full well, and the exploration was never some secret aspect to begin with! Ridiculous.
Yeah, it's not like I've ever even played the older Thief games, I'm just here frothing about a game that I've never played or seen in action. How ridiculous indeed. :rolleyes:
roflmao let's put a laughing smiley here too to show how ridiculous it is :laff: LOL
Jesus christ man, what's with that stupid elitist attitude again? Do you act like this in real life too whenever someone disagrees with you? You clearly have a lot of knowledge about Thief, but when you act like an idiot like this, no one cares about what you've got to say, and I think that's a shame.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Are you kidding me?
Nah, I'm not actually, but I do understand your point of view of course. Yeah, there are (lots of) alternate routes and stuff that may be behind hidden entrances or secret doors, but I wasn't really talking about
that kind of exploration. I put the word "explore" in my reply in italics to try to emphasize that, but I guess I failed at making myself clear. So I obviously did not mean that the classic Thief games are some linear tunnel-running experiences, because Thief is one of the least linear "FPS" games that I've played, so that would be quite a foolish thing to claim. :p
Anyway, as you can see, I was replying to Dia who was afraid that there'll be "severely limited exploration of rooftops and city streets" in Thief 4, and I still stand behind my opinion that there wasn't much exploring like that in TDP or TMA either. Yes, you could occasionally break into some apartment in the city and steal the valuables, or find some open window or the perfect spot for a rope arrow that lets you climb on another rooftop and gives you a safer route towards your objective (etc), but a lot of the time these alternative paths were quite obvious and it was just a question of which route you want to choose. You're all going to hate me for mentioning Assassin's Creed in the same breath with Thief (I already feel guilty about it too, and I actually
liked AC!), and I know that this isn't the best possible comparison, but even in AC there are usually many alternative ways to reach your target... is it really
exploring though? I don't think so, but I guess it all depends on what your definition of exploring is.
What I'm talking about is something like Azaran the Cruel's tower in TMA. I haven't played TMA for years, but finding Azaran's tower was something so extraordinary and special that I still remember it well. It didn't have anything to do with the mission in hand (as far as I know), it was just a nice little bonus. And it wasn't just a small hidden room with a conveniently placed purse to steal, it felt like a living place (I'm not sure if a "living place" is the best way to describe a
dead necromancer's apartment, but I couldn't think of anything better!) with an interesting little story behind it. I feel that TDS missed a golden opportunity there, because the city hub would have been the perfect place for stuff like that. :)
