jtr7 on 10/4/2013 at 02:09

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If Thief had been built then like games are today or even how the competition was at that time, I would not have played it, or cared. I can guarantee you that, 'cause I really dislike how little there is out there for me, and I cannot stand what is normal or common or standard, not only these days, but also the same things that've been a part of gaming since the 70s that keep getting carried over. I wasn't a gamer when Thief came out. I was already done, but I kept looking for the next thing, waiting for someone to make the game I could really get into again, buying occasional magazines for the Demo CDs, with the 30 to 200 games, and checking them out. It still took that chance afternoon meeting up with a friend who was playing TDP (though I only knew it was called Thief), and he wasn't playing his usual rampaging loud style, he was playing Assassins! and just following after Quince and Jacow, and he showed me the moss arrow on the gravel just inside Ramirez's estate. The combination of things I saw and heard and felt got my interest, but I never new if I'd even get another PC ever again, so I didn't dwell on it or look for it in stores. I'm not a gamer, but if more companies worked like LGS, and that was the commonality, the standard, I'd be a gamer, as much as not affording new systems could get me.

Renzatic on 10/4/2013 at 02:25

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I've seen plenty of console games that are just as complicated and smart as Thief. Just because your niece is a console kiddie and doesn't like games that require a lot of buttons (like a console controller with 14 buttons and 2 analog sticks is somehow a limiting factor for everything save flight sims), doesn't mean that all console games are catered to her play style.

She just ain't hardcore enough, yo. |m|:mad:

See, the thing about Thief wasn't that it was extra smart, or extra complicated. I'm sure the average RPG or Mechwarrior of the time was at least 10 times as deep and complicated in comparison. What it was was new. We'd never seen a stealth game quite like it before. There have been plenty of games that have absorbed me completely before and since. But Thief was the first game I played that made it feel like I was intruding. Like I was sneaking into some place where I didn't belong. No game before had ever made you feel as vulnerable and tense as Thief. And really no game has since. It was a singular thing at the time.

...and some people are still chasing that dragon. Unfortunately, none of us here will ever play Thief for the first time ever again.

Nuth on 10/4/2013 at 02:34

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Add to that the fact that we've spent near 15 years discussing every little detail of the original series and that the new game is going to feel flat because of that no matter what. I hope they get enough of the game right for it to be a new beginning, at least.

jtr7 on 10/4/2013 at 03:20

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Gaming as a whole always feels flat, with emotional triggers too obvious and cliched, rather than somehow making it feel fresh, or presenting it in a way that manages to surprise and make the cliche forgivable. TDM is exciting, so it is possible to keep the feeling going in a new way, by holding to what worked, while changing other things to avoid IP trespasses. Thief[4] is a mix of things that have been old and stale to me for a long time, things that are new and repulse me for the same old reasons, things that seem new but are born of boring old concepts and so broadcast their rotten roots, and some things that Thief did, but they can't even keep from decorating, distracting from, or drowning the goodies under layers of modern garbage. They say something I like and am happy about, and then the truth starts coming out, and it's not good. I'd like to hear way more of those things that sound great at a basic level, and sound even better the more we know.

jtr7 on 10/4/2013 at 05:13

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You aren't the only one. We used to fill big threads about it, back when we were told the devs were reading the forums. We'd debate over checkpoints, auto-saves, and quicksaves/loads, as well as how to go about hard saves, with limits only set according to disk space, letting the player rename the savegames if they want. Give the player control over their own gaming life. If it's a divisive choice, make it an option in the menus. I never want to see another in-world object for saving, a floating icon sprite or spinning thing for saving, no beacon pointing to a save point, again. Give me the keys to The City and let me choose the binds for them.