EM Teaser & Site Updates - Official Trailer Up & Latest PREVIEWS & Blog Fan Kit - by thiefessa
thiefessa on 4/4/2013 at 18:51
Quote Posted by Renzatic
I'm finding plenty, though there are some things I'm a little iffy about. The inclusion of punch zones sounds a little dumb at first glance, but if the stealth is better, the enemies smarter and more aware, the game more complex and wide open, will that one feature ruin the rest for you?
I'll probably be buying it day one, but you don't have to. Just wait and see what everyone else says before you decide to get it for yourself. If it sucks, you've saved yourself some cash. But if it's great, go ahead and get it. Why deny yourself a good game just for some niggling issues?
Sense makes sense. :thumb:
Tomi on 4/4/2013 at 18:55
Quote Posted by Dia
Tomi, I honestly hope you enjoy the game, I really, truly do. But so far I'm not finding anything appealing, anything that makes me want to run out & spend $60 on this game. The more I read, i.e.: '
and slow down hand-to-hand combat in order to pick specific parts of your enemy's body to target', the less it appeals. Let's just call it a matter of personal preferences and leave it at that. I wish you good taffing.
Haha thanks, but I'm doing my best to make you change your mind, so that you would enjoy the game too. ;)
All the articles that I've read so far have said that Thief 4 is still very much a stealth game, not a fighting game unless you really want to play like that. But you were able to play TDP, TMA & TDS as fighting games too if you wanted to, but I suppose that hardly anyone did, because the melee system wasn't very good and I think it looked a bit silly. :p So in the best case scenario, getting into a fight now doesn't mean instant quickload (is there anything that kills the immersion more than having to load your game?), but being stealthy is still the best way to go in most situations.
This next advice may be rubbish, but I don't think you should read
too much into the "cool" descriptions of the combat system (etc). Of course EM wants that the game is profitable, and action and violence (and sex) sells, so they use those to try to attract the "mainstream" gamers. Isn't that why movie and game trailers are almost always full of explosive action too? At least EM hasn't played the sex card... yet. :p
Also, if you write down some of the features of the classic Thief games, how many of them sound quite silly?
Fire arrows?
"Explosive fire arrows that help Garrett to fight against the army of undead and blow them up in pieces!"Explosive mines?
"Lure your unsuspecting enemies into a lethal trap, and watch them burn in a deadly sea of flames from the shadows!"Moss arrows? I don't even know where to start. :p
jay pettitt on 4/4/2013 at 19:03
I dunno how Dia feels, but the thing is, I enjoyed Thief because it was full of charm and wit and was very well crafted. Not because it allowed for hardcore stealth gameplay (though I certainly appreciated that there were a variety of approaches to different situations beyond run and gun).
It's the charm and wit and the craft that I'm not seeing.
Ghosting a charmless, witless, clumsily constructed stealth game I can pass on.
Obviously T4 may have charm and wit aplenty, and be incredibly well crafted and that just hasn't come out yet (or I missed it). But I'm not holding my breath for this one.
thiefessa on 4/4/2013 at 19:08
Best thing to do is reserve judgement until you see more. And there is a lot more to come. Stay tuned. :thumb:
Tomi on 4/4/2013 at 19:10
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Why deny yourself a good game just for some niggling issues?
This pretty much sums up my thoughts. Well said, Renz.
Aw man, just when I thought that the AI could genuinely be something different and challenging, you have to go and post a link like this! :p
"That’s the basis of stealth in the new Thief, and while it cleaves to the gameplay mechanics of the original games it also seems to rely heavily on dumb enemy AI. During our demo the player appeared to be sneaking into a home for the blind, and where’s the fun in that?"That's a bit worrying, but then again the guards in classic Thief were pretty dumb too and the "sneaking into a home for the blind" could be applied to it in many cases as well. Obviously you don't want some super intelligent AI either as that probably wouldn't be fun
at all [a guard believes that he may have seen something suspicious, and instead of thinking that it's just a rat, he alerts all his mates and they all keep looking for you until the dawn rises], but I would be disappointed if this turns out to be yet another game where stealth seems frustratingly easy and ridiculously unrealistic.
It's weird that the other articles so far have seen the new AI as one of the strong points in Thief 4, so let's hope that the TechHive guys are just being very harsh or they've been playing on some easier difficulty level.
jay pettitt on 4/4/2013 at 19:12
Quote Posted by Tomi
Aw man, just when I thought that the AI could genuinely be something different and challenging, you have to go and post a link like this! :p
"That's the basis of stealth in the new Thief, and while it cleaves to the gameplay mechanics of the original games it also seems to rely heavily on dumb enemy AI. During our demo the player appeared to be sneaking into a home for the blind, and where's the fun in that?"That's a bit worrying, but then again the guards in classic Thief were pretty dumb too and the "sneaking into a home for the blind" could be applied to it in many cases as well. Obviously you don't want some super intelligent AI either as that probably wouldn't be fun
at all [a guard believes that he may have seen something suspicious, and instead of thinking that it's just a rat, he alerts all his mates and they all keep looking for you until the dawn rises], but I would be disappointed if this turns out to be yet another game where stealth seems frustratingly easy and ridiculously unrealistic.
It's weird that the other articles so far have seen the new AI as one of the strong points in Thief 4, so let's hope that the TechHive guys are just being very harsh or they've been playing on some easier difficulty level.
I'm pretty sure the press demo is just what they call a slice - a mock up of bits and pieces put together to show intention rather than a piece of finished article. Seriously I wouldn't read anything much into any of it.
Renzatic on 4/4/2013 at 19:15
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
I dunno how Dia feels, but the thing is, I enjoyed Thief because it was full of charm and wit and was very well crafted. Not because it allowed for hardcore stealth gameplay (though I certainly appreciated that there were a variety of approaches to different situations beyond run and gun).
Yup. The stealth gameplay by itself wasn't the reason why Thief is a fondly remembered classic even now.
Thief was everything coming together perfectly. The stealth, the world, the characters, the sound, the music, the acting. This is what made it what it was. New Thief could have the greatest gameplay in the world, but that's only a small bit of the total equation. EM will have to work just as hard on every single aspect of the game if they want it to truly live up to its namesake.
Otherwise, it'll just be a really good but ultimately forgettable stealth game.
Quote:
It's the charm and wit and the craft that I'm not seeing.
Ghosting a charmless, witless, clumsily constructed stealth game I can pass on.
Obviously T4 may have charm and wit aplenty, and be incredibly well crafted and that just hasn't come out yet (or I missed it). But I'm not holding my breath for this one.
I wouldn't say that I'm not seeing it at all. There are hints of something potentially great lurking about, but it's not really obvious yet.
cyrosis on 4/4/2013 at 19:17
Quote:
In an age where developers can trust the player to be smarter, it's weird to see them assuming that the player won't notice how stupid and predictable the AI can be.
What age is he talking about, did I miss that this article is from the 90's?
jay pettitt on 4/4/2013 at 19:20
....the Dynamic Fog age.
