Who here wasn't around in 2009 when this was compiled by one fan from a portion of the posts in a single mega-thread?:
It's the T4 Wishlist. No one else made one. No one else took the time. If they did, they kept their list between themselves and maybe EM. This was shared on the Eidos boards, so the excuse of EM's exclusion of other fans on other sites wasn't valid then, and the Community Manager at the time received a copy and said he shared it with the team, and asked for more input like this. By 2010/11, it was clear it was a waste of time and energy.
The point of this post today is to remind people who were there, some of how we got here, the distrust and yet hopeful optimism was there in different proportions, the knowledge that outside the grip of capitalistic enslavement, an incredible game that transcends the graphics and story is possible, has since given way to knowing EM is risk-averse where Thief and sales are concerned. A game for a niche market cannot retain its difference if it's made to be more appealing to the masses.
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 I don't see a problem with many types of items at the shop. Just don't make it all easy to buy, it's all about choices. If you want that new spy-arrow then you're going to play the mission with only 5 broadhead arrows, and so on...
 I hope they steer clear of the "stores" that existed in TDS. It veered too close to giving Thief RPG qualities, and it made equipment purchasing pointless when you could just buy 50 water arrows at any given time. Buying tools and such should be mission-centric, otherwise you might as well have Garrett going out and paying rent, buying a beer at the Crippled Burrick, or dropping some coin at the local brothel.
 Well, personally I don't want complete freedom of choice. Thief in a GTA style setting wouldn't be Thief to me. It's always been (even in TDS) focused on on individual missions and objectives.
 If there is going to be rope arrows hows about using them horizontally for ziplines, even tripwires?
 Could we get a monetary system that sounds reasonable? 500 for Widow Moira's life-savings, and 500 for a couple of special arrows? If the loot was nice, but then money was deducted between missions for food, rent, and the usual expenses, with days and months passing between missions, then loot wouldn't have to be held over. It could be what's left over from a big haul. And the minimum loot objectives and loot available, special loot, and the big prize he's on the mission to get to begin with would take that into account, so the deductions would leave Garrett with enough to buy gear for the next mission.
 Could he plant seed crystals in their element to grow them quickly and where he wants them?
 A level editor. This is what has kept the Thief series going for so long.
 The core elements of T1 / T2 gameplay should be preserved, like swimmable water, rope arrows, 1st person.
 Proper black-jacking. The automated black-jacking in T3 annoyed me, players should be capable of knocking someone out by themselves (if the creators think not, then have a tutorial training like in the original, which explains it all)
 Multiple ways of performing various tasks, e.g. multiple entry points to a mansion, multiple ways of bypassing security systems, etc)
 The Rust-Monkey [Thron] style cut-scenes - the in-game renderings in T3 were a disappointment. The classic pre-mission briefing videos return as a key narrative tool in Thief 4.
 I always like the idea of using tools to complete a job, even though they tend to break the flow of the classic sneaking about. However, no amount of sneaking will get you through a locked door.
 A limit on what and how much you can carry would add a great challenge and allow for decision making.
 Level editor - it's what's been sustaining this community for the last 10 years
 Larger levels - My biggest beef with TDS. I missed playing a single level with no loading zones for 2-4 hours straight. Included in this is more complexity, lots of secrets, difficult optional places to reach, bonus objectives, etc. Most of the TDS levels felt way too simple in their layout.
 No Shiny Fancy Shit - loot glint, arrow trails, atomic frob, etc. Kills immersion.
 Noise cover: You know, when there's lot's of environment noise, the enemies will have a hard time hearing you. For example, rain, machinery, wind, etc.
 Scared enemies: When you make creepy noises, open doors and jerk around without being seen, some wimpy guards get startled and go for help, creating embarrassing situations when nothing is found.
 More entry points: Rooftop, basement, windows, sewers, you name it.
 Enemies shout for help: Why do they always run to tell others when they could just shout for help?
 Mission Briefings - I can't believe these were abandoned in TDS. Geez, I still watch these things solo without even playing a level sometimes.
 Accommodate different playing styles - Thief has come a long way in 10 years, players now regularly ghost, iron man, go blackjack happy, etc.
 Difficulty settings - Expert equals no killing, 100% loot.
 Garrett should stay unseen even for the player, this adds 50% to the mystery of the character.
 Stephen Russell asap - don't EVEN think of a counterfeit replacement here as there is only ONE Garrett this world will ever know.
 Pagans, if we have them in thief 4 could we base their speech off of the pagans in the first 2 games? their speech in TDS seemed to get about 300% more ridiculous sounding.
 AI that can climb ladders and ropes (unless they're too fat ) and are pretty nimble in general (although less so than our master thief) AI that can swim
 I'd also like to see animals, and not just burricks (though burricks are fine, too). Maybe some beasts for riding / pulling carts, and guard dogs (or a Thief universe equivalent thereof).
 Other than that I would also love to have more puzzles in the game. Both in terms of physical puzzles and in terms of gathering clues and solving riddles like in the mage towers.
 Maybe they can let you drink beer, play minigames at the bar, visit madame Fifi and all that if they make it optional. So people who just want their missions will just do it and people who might enjoy some City life can also do it. A bit like Fable in fact.
 I think I'm more or less alone in this, but I think Garrett should carry a dagger rather than sword, like in TDS. It just makes more sense with the kind of "job" he has, and he never was any good with a sword, anyway.
 Some kind of stumbling traps that you can throw before enemies chasing you, so you can slow them down / immobilize them without knockouts or even deadly force
 Rope arrows whose ropes don't just unroll downwards, but can be fixated before you shoot them, so that you can span a rope across a precipice.
 AIs with a sense of smell and the Downwinders who can't detect Garrett for it, nor the "smells like old meat" guards, nor those that live at the Docks, but the nobility and their guards can. Difficulty modes would vary from not being a real problem to being a serious puzzle to solve.
 Garrett's Mechanical Eye is made of: Brass plating, Addonizio Crystal, and oil-filled to "increase the numerical aperture of the objective lens," with steampunk mechanics, and a 12-bladed iris diaphragm.
 More material impact sounds. Tile floors boots squeak on after walking in from the rain or hopping out of the sewers, grit under boots on dusty floors or after walking in mud, and then floorboards creaking. Animated textures (very limited use, not carried away). Watery, bump-mapped footprints.
 More interaction with objects (open-ended, not scripted): Can't jump to that other building across the street? But maybe there's a ladder or wooden bench or something lying somewhere near, that you can use to bridge the gap.
 Make the speed of opening / closing doors, lids etc. adjustable, but make AIs able to hear them (if closed too violently) - could make for some tense gameplay in semi-crowded spots.
 Medieval times, not modern, Thief 4 will take place in the classic Thief environ of the medieval steampunk world we know as The City.
 If there is optional third-person then players in first-person mode will never have to put up with 'leaving their body'. Any forced third-person perspective and I'm not interested. Thief 4 will be designed entirely as a first-person game with no third-person option.
 First-person? FIRST PRIORITY of perspectives! If I had it my way, there would be no third-person. One thing is for sure, a third person adds tons off extra work for the developers.
 Missions will feature large areas to explore in a non-linear fashion unbroken by loading zones.
 The protagonist will once again be Garrett and he will be voiced by Stephen Russell.
 Books to read, I felt this added to the immersion
 I really hope they don't call it Thi4f. To me it's not very creative, and just looks plain weird.
 Swimmable water!
 No combat with end bosses. The first games had Garrett give the antagonists the tools to kill themselves unwittingly, and in TDS Garrett removes Gamall's threat, returning her to a totally powerless and non-Glyph-enhanced hag. No combat. This goes against popular convention, though I hope other games have dared to try it, as well.
 The original equipment was enough, and no one should be looking for excuses to get caught, rather than mastering avoidance. Too much equipment detracts from player skill and makes Garrett look bad.
 I mentioned before that rather than more equipment, I'd love to see more developed and immersive AI behaviour. Even simple little stuff like suspicious guards peeking under beds, giving you the chance to quickly sneak into a better shadow, curtains slung aside with sword ready to see if anyone is hiding behind them. Also, there are probably countless non-scripted, generic NPC interactions which could be successfully implimented to flesh out the thrill of voyeuristically sneaking through a living world.
 I would like to see the "coin" in the equipement. You throw it on AI's path to make it stop and pick it up or use it as noise maker. More usefull than an arrow and it has 2 uses
 If a player is not masterful, not stealthy, and resorts to dirty tricks and what a master would consider novice cheating, then that player shouldn't be rewarded as much. I remember when the game mechanics were finally understood. It was a proud victory moment, and I felt masterful, and felt skilled, not just relying on power-ups or level-ups. I earned the skills, not Garrett. I caught up to Garrett's skill level. It was my victory and I owned The City.
 Loot glint: Subtle! No sparkly glitter rising in the air so Garrett can see the loot glinting without seeing the loot itself! No loot glint at all, unless the texture artists can't make textures look enticing--but if you must, then make it a proximity thing, not 30 metres away--up close and within frobbing distance! No hand-holding! If it's necessary, something elsewhere was compromised and needs repair.
 Frob highlight: Just fullbright the frobbable object, not cover it with a detail-destroying blue shell. Let us have a good look at the item in all its glory!
 Arrow trails: They were never necessary. Ever. Nor were the loud whistling sounds, while I'm at it. If arrow trails seem necessary, something has been compromised and needs repair elsewhere. No hand-holding!
 Treat the players as intelligent thinkers, and only the ones who take up the challenge to slow down, think, and slink should be maximally rewarded.
 All elemental arrows/crystals: If Garrett is the only one who uses them, then he should not find them in armouries (except MAYBE fire arrows), but only in their natural element, or obviously put aside for other household uses. Water in water or where water was recently, fire in fire or where fire was recently, moss in earthy'n'dirty'n'mouldy places, air in places with heavy air or steam. If Garrett is NOT the only one who uses them then let's see other AI use them once in awhile, otherwise choose better power-up locations or make them look naturally formed or simply collected, but not in armouries. No wine-glass droning coming from them from more than half-a-metre away, if at all. It's hand-holding the player for them to hear it beyond frobbing distance. The only crystal that should have any glow is the fire crystal. Water should have condensation. Air crystals should look like it has dry-ice fog coming off. Earth crystals should look solid, opaque, and packed tightly with deep green plant life waiting to burst out.
 Noisemakers: I liked the mechanical spring-wound sound with the crackles, not bottle rocket sounds, and as I said earlier, it should sound unusual or a guard should seem to think it's something identifiable. If Garrett's the only one who uses the noisemakers, then no one (or the very rare person) should ever be able to identify it--except the Keepers. Why the Keepers were just as baffled and curious as anyone else just didn't make sense. If Garrett is NOT the only one who uses them, then people should state they know what's up, even if they can't find the source.
 Moss arrows: Why were they buzzing like mini-weed-whackers in TDS? They were always silent and created silence. And why did the moss recede and disappear?
 A screen-dump button for taking screenshots, one after another, without running another application for it.
 Thief 4 merchandise, Thief mobile game, New Thief soundtrack, Thief poster. Trapezoidal collector's edition box. Behind-the-scenes footage shipped with the game including an interview with Stephen Russell.
 Having Eric Brosius and Laura Baldwin on board for any Thief game if at all possible!
 Make The City dark and steampunk-like
 Thief 3 loading zones killed immersion. You kill immersion in this sort of game, you're killing the whole experience.
 Thief must be dark and with great physics, it must have those nice and well done cutscenes and.... a mysterious, deceptive evil guy behind the plot
 Thief missions themselves should not be too linear. Being able to complete a mission with various paths is a must. The past Thief games had some respectable replayability
 I would love at least 1 mission (or maybe a 2 part'er), that is pretty much off the storyline and somewhere far and deep away. (like Bonehoard)
 Stealth not action (Garrett is a thief, THE BEST THIEF, not a killer, give us a lot of choices to accomplish an objective)
 Make it dense and vertical and bing back the LGS concept of a "6D" game (up/down, left/right, front/back), and if I'm on the roof, let me see across The City, even if I cannot access those areas. Bring back the feeling we had with the LGS games that the world was much bigger than the mission maps, instead of being able to just walk from mission to mission in mere hours or less.
 I really want to see the zombies again, they are one of the great symbols in the Thief universe, every zombie mission gives me the creeps every time although I know they're just a bunch of polygons. Return to the Cathedral is just one of the best Thief level ever imho.
 I, for one, do not want to hear how they are "fans" of the game, when the majority of the time it's false advertising. I'd rather they were informed and tapped-in to the heart, the core, knowing which elements are found in each game (keeping in mind that swimmable water and rope arrows were intended). One thing I've learned here is that fans of the game include people who play as assassins, don't know or care for the story, etc., so the elements that allow that to possibly happen have to be there, but most importantly, what I'm saying is that, to call one's self "a fan" doesn't mean they know much about Thief at all, only that they like the parts they like very much. I need to hear that nothing classic will be dismissed. Nothing a dev or producer doesn't "get" about the classic elements will not be cast aside.
 TDP/Gold LGS-style as a template. Laura Baldwin's unmatched and varied writing styles. No cheap imitators, unless they can match what she did. Classic Eric Brosius. If not him, then someone who can imitate him better than the Monkees imitated the Beatles, with his abstract yet emotive scores, not the movie score sound (though the track for the Widow Moira stands out as a good example for TDS). I LIKED noticing the score for the earlier games. Daniel Thron. His voices and mattes, if not the briefings and cutscenes (though he didn't do the briefings in the games, but that style should be tapped, not a long readable).
 Classic flora and fauna, used judiciously, to make The City feel whole again, and to repair what was broken. Burrick tunnels, old or new. Glowing mushroom lights. Craymen and Cobrabeasts, even if they are trophy heads in a living room (especially Cobrabeasts, since snakes are out of the question without the invention of the correct logarithm for navigating shifting terrain or working with unpredictable player action). Optional Spiders and Undead, without forcing players to have to endure them. Even just the classic spider sound behind a door. Fix the Rust Mites so they actually attack metal. Why weren't the rust mites animated nearly so as well as the classic spider animations? If it's new, it should be better in all respects. Can we get fish, seagulls, other birds, and/or bats now? Plumsies.
 Motion Capture, not heavily tweaked and modified mo-cap data. No humanoid AI animations that weren't performed by real human beings with real gravity and gear or weights to create natural movement.
 Emphasis on core mechanics and more processing power to The City terrain: seeing across The City while up high (even if it's glimpses, or a neat illusory trick), not console eye-candy, bells and whistles, extra weapons, lip-syncing, or bloom. These things were not necessary, and should only be tacked on after all the basics are in place and working very well. The Thieves' Highway, and the Thieves' Byway (Sewers). Vertical and layered. However, I don not want to be told up front that they WILL have rope arrows and swimmable water, but that they DO have them already. The ISA devs believed they would have them, and it didn't work out, so they had to tell us the bad news and after going through their own disappointment. No wands, Dyan should have her sparkly staff back (a TDS readable even mentioned it).
 This really isn't about making a Thief DP2, or MA2, or DS2. It's about making a good Thief game. I hope, that if there will be any, then in the great brainstorm of these ideas and the clash between the rope-arrow and climbing gloves the main idea shan't get lost: that the game needs to be wholly Thief.
- TTLG.com
