Hesche on 21/2/2017 at 18:59
Quote Posted by SD
Transport had its hydrogen moment in the 1930s. It didn't end well.
Funny business, this biased risk assessment, isn´t it? 10e2 people killed in one incident leads to the renouncement of a whole technology branch while a technology causing 10e6 deaths per year is accepted just fine for decades now.
Pyrian on 21/2/2017 at 19:04
I think it's disingenuous to say that "the energy still has to come from somewhere" with electric while failing to say the same for hydrogen. I keep hearing about promising electrolysis technologies, but AFAIK it's still grossly inefficient, and anyway that's just another step in the chain. Right now hydrogen is produced from natural gas with CO2 as a byproduct, so same-old same-old as far as global warming goes. At least with an electric plug-in car I can recharge it from my solar panels (or a home battery charged from said solar panels). Really, in sunny places like where I live, the problem of clean energy production is actually less than the problem of car and battery costs.
Honestly, people talk a lot about infrastructure, but I'm really looking forward to being able to charge my car at home instead of having to stop at stations. For anything other than the occasional long road trip, it's a lot more convenient.
Hesche on 21/2/2017 at 19:11
Oh, hydrogen will definitely play an important role in energy production, storage and distribution. There are a lot of interesting things you can do with hydrogen. You could produce it from (photovoltaic) electrolysis of water and let it react with CO2 (from, let´s say a biogas plant) to methane which is a carbon atom carrying 4 hydrogen atoms, so basically a molecular hydrogen balloon. Much easier to transport than pure hydrogen. And that´s just one application. However, I just don´t see hydrogen as source of energy for an automobile.
heywood on 21/2/2017 at 21:46
The energy density of hydrogen or methane is certainly higher than a Li-ion battery, but the Li-ion battery wins on efficiency. Large scale electrolysers are maybe 60% efficient, and hydrogen fuel cells are more like 50% efficient, so the overall charge-discharge efficiency is only around 30%. Li-ion batteries are 80-90%.
bjack on 21/2/2017 at 22:51
These are for sale about 2 miles from home. I see at least 2 a day, but probably the same test drivers.
(
https://ssl.toyota.com/mirai/fcv.html)
They are about $60K US. Much more than a Chevy Bolt, but far less than a Tesla. There are a few fueling stations near me, but they are suspiciously offline a lot.
faetal on 22/2/2017 at 18:26
Quote Posted by Pyrian
I think it's disingenuous to say that "the energy still has to come from somewhere" with electric while failing to say the same for hydrogen.
Totally agree, that's just not hydrogen's
biggest problem - my post was a drive-by.
SD on 22/2/2017 at 22:18
Quote Posted by Hesche
Funny business, this biased risk assessment, isn´t it? 10e2 people killed in one incident leads to the renouncement of a whole technology branch while a technology causing 10e6 deaths per year is accepted just fine for decades now.
On balance I think I'd probably rather hitch a ride in a Prius than the Hindenburg, but each to their own.
Renzatic on 22/2/2017 at 22:25
Wimp.
demagogue on 23/2/2017 at 06:03
You mean whimpenburg.
Hydrogen is the future is so 2000s.
These days, I'm thinking the future of energy is going to look more like roving gangs of bandits with spiked jackets driving hobbled dune buggies and hustling gasoline from rusted abandoned Prius's in the desert.
Renzatic on 23/2/2017 at 06:18
It might be a good idea to invest in an indoors hydroponics farm, so you can still grow your food when the nuclear winters come.
