Yakoob on 30/9/2016 at 22:44
Agreed, unless its plot or inventory items. Being able to pick up 90% junk cluttering your space because you don't know what's useful or not is equally annoying (hello Fallout 3).
Adding to the list - story moments in games (mainly RPGs) when you are presented with a potential "bad thing happening" in attempt to raise tension that you know will not happen. I.e. in Grandia II there is a point when the protagonist has a big dilemma decididing if he should accept the next quest. But it has little impact as you know he will, because you're only 1/4 of the way in and it would be shitty for the game to end right now. Or all the BS "homg char X is kidnapped/injured/dying" scenarios that make me roll my eyes.
Conversely, kudos goes to games that are actually brave enough to cross that barrier and do something "not allowed" (hello Aerith in FF7). I LOVE that point, cause it turns the game story from "welp this is a predictable rollercoaster" to "oh shit, ANYTHING can happen now" and actually makes uncertainty possible.
This also reminded me of an old blog post aptly titled (
http://koobazaur.com/gamedev/game-design/play-games-hate/) Why I play games I hate.
Volitions Advocate on 30/9/2016 at 23:18
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
The atmosphere in Alien: Isolation.
Please elaborate. It sounded funny when I read it and I'm not entirely sure you're not being facetious...
For me. Rage was a fantastic game with no payoff. I did all this stuff and was looking forward to the next bit of story, then suddenly the credits started rolling. The game didn't feel like it was written poorly, it just felt truncated. Like they literally chopped it in half with a cleaver and Bethesda said "end it there" with so much left to do.
AVP 2010. No map editor. AVP2 was being played for years beyond its viability, both on and offline, because of the mapping/modding community. AvP2010 had some fantastic things going for it. And for that matter, anybody who thinks I give a shit about DLC multiplayer maps. I really couldn't give a crap. So I get to play on 2 more maps. I should be able to play on maps made by the community.
Clive Barkers Jericho - this one could fit into the "games everybody else hated but I liked" thread. It started out pretty well. but after you go back in time during the 2nd jump... the enemies were all literally the same at that point. The gun play in that game was so good and visceral. It was one of the "no jump" games that have been complained about here, but I found it didn't have a negative impact on the game. The samey ness of the last 2/3 of the game though.... Also the ending... I think ambiguous endings are find if they're somewhat definitive. The ending of Jericho just left every question unanswered, half the team dead. the bad buy/thing dead and everybody stranded? or not? end of the world? what exactly happened?
Malf on 1/10/2016 at 00:14
Quote Posted by Yakoob
You bring up good points BUT There is much more to Leveling Up than just raising your stats. One, there is the psychological effect of "yea my char is getting stronger!" that is inherently rewarding. Two, it creates a sense of "progression" that you are moving forward. Three, it often grants you new skills and abilities which makes the gameplay more complex and rewarding. Being thrown 50+ abilities from start to choose from would be a little overwhelming.
Psst... hence my further exposition using Guild Wars as an example.
I think the problem is that there are many games out there now, all trying to crowbar in a levelling system in order to harness that addictive "progression" you mention, all while completely misunderstanding how to keep gameplay rewarding with the levelling system in place.
Once of these days I'll do a thorough breakdown of exactly where Witcher 3 completely drops the ball with its levelling system, but this isn't the thread for that.
Yakoob on 1/10/2016 at 01:06
Part of the reason why early on I opted for "NO STATS!" in my "rpg lite" games like Karaski, focusing on tool or ability acquisition as form of progression and "class specialization"
Pyrian on 1/10/2016 at 01:24
Pretty similar for Glade Raid, although technically there are a few stats and stat buffs floating around. The vast majority of the upgrades grant new abilities (a lot of which have drawbacks as well as advantages).
Jason Moyer on 1/10/2016 at 02:35
Quote Posted by Brethren
I hate not being able to jump.
I knew you secretly loved Thief 4.
Jason Moyer on 1/10/2016 at 02:37
Quote Posted by Volitions Advocate
Please elaborate. It sounded funny when I read it and I'm not entirely sure you're not being facetious...
It's something I liked in a game I don't like. I think the feeling of being in the original Alien movie is fantastic, I just can't stand the actual gameplay.
Volitions Advocate on 1/10/2016 at 05:11
I personally love it and want MOAARR. but.. Fair enough.
faetal on 1/10/2016 at 08:00
Quote Posted by Yakoob
Part of the reason why early on I opted for "NO STATS!" in my "rpg lite" games like Karaski, focusing on tool or ability acquisition as form of progression and "class specialization"
Stalker worked similarly. You level up by getting access to better guns, artifacts and body armour
Thirith on 1/10/2016 at 09:46
Quote Posted by Yakoob
Part of the reason why early on I opted for "NO STATS!" in my "rpg lite" games like Karaski, focusing on tool or ability acquisition as form of progression and "class specialization"
I haven't played the final version yet, but I'm still wondering if it might be worth having an invisible progress system behind the scenes that results in the PC getting better/faster at things but not in big, immediately noticeable ways. I remember finding the time it took to have a tool work increasingly annoying as I got on in the game, so having that time reduced by 1% every time you use a tool (because you're getting better at using them) might be worth trying out.
Not saying that
Karaski needed this, but I do like the idea of an invisible progression system that isn't used as a carrot to dangle in front of the player but gives them a subtle impression that they're getting better at things. Of course it'd be tricky to implement well, but it might be worth experimenting.
