Pyrian on 29/9/2016 at 22:03
"Urgency" in games is frequently hilarious. One hour until the facility burns - and still one hour to go, two hours later. (Yes, I'm slow.) (Bonus points for FTL: Why do you need to hurry? Well, see that big red area taking over the map?)
Malf on 29/9/2016 at 22:52
I always think people mentioning boss fights as being tired purposefully forget some of the best ones. What would Ocarina of Time or Metroid Prime be without those stellar boss fights?
Quote Posted by Brethren
Points of no return. Nothing like closing off parts of a level to kill the exploration aspect of it.
Oh gods, tell me about it. There was a bit in the sewers in The Last of Us where I hadn't fully explored everything and it locked a door behind me. It was a completely arbitrary point too, and for a game that partially sold itself on scavenging every last thing in order to survive, I felt that was pretty unforgivable.
Nameless Voice on 29/9/2016 at 23:57
Doom 4 also loved arbitrary and senseless points of no return. Most annoying thing in an otherwise rather excellent game.
faetal on 30/9/2016 at 01:08
Especially given how much exploration was encouraged to find secrets.
Nameless Voice on 30/9/2016 at 01:34
I think I had to restart one map around three times just because I kept locking myself off from a secret.
Jason Moyer on 30/9/2016 at 05:16
Quote Posted by icemann
The boss battles however were only do-able 1 way. Killing.
The first time I beat DXHR I took down all of the bosses with stun darts. Of course, it doesn't matter because they die anyway, but while the boss fights were poorly designed (and the one in DXMD is even worse, imo, since the stun/takedown combo works like it does on the exosuits) they weren't exactly hard if you were playing non-lethal.
Things I hate in games I love: I hated the 5 minutes you spend in 3rd person climbing mode in Thief 4. And the awful model-based body awareness in Thief 3 (thank god that never caught on). The small levels in DXIW. Having to ironman missions in Alpha Protocol because reloading mid-mission breaks things. Not being able to mantle in Deus Ex. The backtracking in System Shock 2. Casing The Joint/Masks and the almost total absence of supernatural elements in Thief 2. The enemy/object levelling in Oblivion. The streamlined skill system in Skyrim. The dialog system in Morrowind. The terrible item/inventory management in Mass Effect. The stupid mining minigame in Mass Effect 2. Not being able to holster your weapon in Mass Effect 3 (as well as the shitty model/texture work and change in style of the PP effects). The forced combat in Mirror's Edge Catalyst. The fact that Supermutants, Ghouls, and the Brotherhood exist in Fallout 3/4.
Things I love in games I hate: The goofy surrealism of Alan Wake. About half of California in Wasteland 2. Vaas and the Rakyat in Far Cry 3. The atmosphere in Alien: Isolation. The world of Arcanum. The Duke Burger in DNF.
icemann on 30/9/2016 at 09:26
I hate FPS games that lack a manual save option, and that instead use checkpoints. This is annoying since you often have to redo 10-20 minutes of gameplay over and over again. It also means that trialing of different play styles is far less of an option since you have so much to lose out of it. Plus it's lazy programming promoted by consoles.
Things I love in games I hate:
This one more applies to 90s games than anything else, but good/great FMV is bad or average games. I am a sucker for FMV games and so have endured some half half games over the years when they had good FMV in them.
TannisRoot on 30/9/2016 at 12:28
Quote Posted by marbleman
I really wanted to enjoy Dark Souls games, because boss fights are fantastic there. But I hated the controls with combos and all that stuff...
???
Dark souls doesn't really have combos. You've got basically 6 attacks on any one weapon that change depending on whether or not you are two handing it: a light attack, heavy attack and depending on your momentum that could be modified into a leap attack, back+forward attack, running attack, or a plunge attack.
There's none of that back forward square square triangle circle square shit. I absolutely hate that crap (Ninja Gaiden) and end up bored out of my mind employing the one easiest combo that works in 99% of situations over and over (izuna drop everything always). That said I love souls combat. It's easy to learn, hard to master.
marbleman on 30/9/2016 at 14:55
TannisRoot
I consider backstabs and plunging attacks combos too. My input as a player doesn't change, but my character behaves differently. That's a mismatch between player and character I'm talking about.
Maybe I'm being too hard on the game, but the bottomline is - I didn't like the controls. Let's just leave it at that :)
Yakoob on 30/9/2016 at 17:09
Oh man, so many examples to mention. I play all sorts of games for game design research, often ones I know I'd hate just because they do something cool. Like the Last Express or Majora's Mask - not a fan of point n click or dungeon puzzles, but the world-moves-in-real-time with everyone doing their own thing was a really cool aspect.
Adding to the Leveling Up stuff - unnecessary grind periods. Sometimes they can be fun and a nice break from the story highs (like in Grandia 2), sometimes they overcome their welcome and just become a slog (Lionheart).
Quote Posted by Malf
For a while now, I've been learning to hate the concept of levelling up. I've always had a problem with having to discard a weapon because I've found one that behaves the same but has slightly better stats, but I'm beginning to think that the concept of "levelling up" as a whole is tired and needs to be addressed.
As mentioned in the music thread, Witcher 3 is one of my favourite games of recent times, if not ever, but the conceit that after playing the previous two games I still have to level up Geralt is annoying.
You bring up good points BUT There is much more to Leveling Up than just raising your stats. One, there is the psychological effect of "yea my char is getting stronger!" that is inherently rewarding. Two, it creates a sense of "progression" that you are moving forward. Three, it often grants you new skills and abilities which makes the gameplay more complex and rewarding. Being thrown 50+ abilities from start to choose from would be a little overwhelming.
But I do agree that DX's "buy abilities" is better than merely stats going up at the same rate as monsters. Grandia II is cool in exactly that way, as you use your earned XP points to upgrade special moves, magic, and skills books so it
Also see my next comment:
Quote:
Speaking of leveling, if a game is linearish, it's gonna be designed in a way, that as you get stronger, you also meet stronger enemies anyway, so what's even the point?
I'm playing Grandia II, which is quite linear, and has the same issues you point. If you replaced HP and damage with %, you probably would not see much of a change. But seeing that change just "feels good, man" and with the new abilities and loot you acquire it does vastly open up the combat gameplay options. Yea it doesn't matter for 90% of enemies who are generic grunts you can blast through on all melee, but it's cool to once in a while get a new powerful spell and wipe out the whole field with just one move :p
Quote:
It's also ridiculous having to spend a fortune on crafting gear when because of the way the levelling system works, it becomes redundant once you're 4-5 levels above the level required to use said gear.
That I much more agree with. I NEVER buy weapons in RPGs exactly because I know the second I do, I will find something better in a cave 5 minutes later. I was just going through some plains in Grandia 2 and via exploration found a really powerful helbard... only to become obsolete by a more powerful one you can buy at the next village 10 minutes later. What was the point of that?
Quote Posted by Malleus
@Malf
Man, I so agree with the Witcher complaint. It even creates a bunch of stupid scenarios like when you arrive in the city early game, and you find a blacksmith shop. ... And you just agreed to meet this guy in a certain location by starting the quest, but you have to break off and do something else instead. I't the most arbitrary videogame bullshit ever.
Bahaha, I know EXACTLY whom you're talking about and it ticked me off too, especially since I haven't found the other blacksmith in the city yet and was pissed I couldn't repair my loots.
Quote Posted by icemann
I hate FPS games that lack a manual save option, and that instead use checkpoints. This is annoying since you often have to redo 10-20 minutes of gameplay over and over again. It also means that trialing of different play styles is far less of an option since you have so much to lose out of it. Plus it's lazy programming promoted by consoles.
Guilty here on Karaski ;p but it was less lazy programming and "homg Unity serialization" hehe. I actually got save-anywhere working for testing purposes but it was a bit wonky and many current world state elements were not being serialized properly (like opened/unlocked doors).
