Ghostly Apparition on 8/11/2008 at 18:34
Quote Posted by demagogue
Lots and lots of stuff
Thats one of the few things you've written that I can agree with. Maybe there's not as much difference between us as I thought.
Aerothorn on 8/11/2008 at 18:34
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
This was a landslide make no mistake. The people have spoken and with a clear voice. They are tired of the policies of failure. Of an illegitimate war,
of outsourced jobs, of lies, of lousy stewardship, of torture, of economy in total disarray.
This was a landslide in the electoral sense, yes - but the electoral college is not direct democracy and does not "equal" the people's voice. If you look at the popular vote, Obama won by 51%. That is in no way, shape, or form a landslide. The "people" haven't spoken with a clear voice - a slight majority preferred Obama. Big difference.
paloalto90 on 8/11/2008 at 18:41
Quote:
As to your closing statement - do you have some statistical proof that the road from poverty to prosperity is shorter today than a hundred years ago, and that this is so for more people?
Do I really need to?
Since England at that time had welfare for only skilled workers,no public education,no food stamp programs,no access to grants both public and private,no programs for public housing etc. I would assume it would be a slam dunk that the opportunity to improve ones status is better in modern industrial countries than back then.
If you want to look up the statistics for blacks from the 1900s on ownership of houses,longevity,high school diplomas and college degrees,business ownerhip etc. etc. go ahead.
Excluding the last decade where the loss of manufacturing jobs have hurt the progress of blacks in a lot of areas ,the trend is generally upward.
BEAR on 8/11/2008 at 19:20
Quote Posted by Aerothorn
This was a landslide in the electoral sense, yes - but the electoral college is not direct democracy and does not "equal" the people's voice. If you look at the popular vote, Obama won by 51%. That is in no way, shape, or form a landslide. The "people" haven't spoken with a clear voice - a slight majority preferred Obama. Big difference.
You are mistaken. Obama got 53% of the popular vote compared to 46% for John McCain. This is well over the margin that Bush beat Gore (who actually won the popular vote) or Kerry. Obama beat McCain by nearly 8 million votes, which is well over the combined difference in popular vote in the last two elections.
Whether or not you interperate this to be a landslide, you could at least get your numbers to be close as they are plastered all over the internet. Comparing Obama's numbers to McCain's is also fairly important (I think), in judging their opposing ideologies.
Starrfall on 8/11/2008 at 20:18
Also this is only the second time in the last five elections that the winner got more than 50% of the popular vote.
It's also only the third time in the last eight elections that the winner got more than 51% of the popular vote. (The other two are 1984 and 1988.)
BEAR on 8/11/2008 at 20:36
Yeah, you're right, he barely won at all!
a flower in hell on 8/11/2008 at 21:19
Quote Posted by Fringe
Since the New Deal, we've become one of the wealthiest nations in the world with a high standard of living--but now a middle class that's been in decline for about as long as deregulation has been a fad.
(
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx) UCLA, a liberal bastion of education, has tumbled to the fact that the "New Deal" actually lengthened the Great Depression by seven years.
I think this is where one says, "oh snap!"
ZylonBane on 8/11/2008 at 22:12
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
Tiny response to gigantic full-page quoted text.
I'm going to have to ask you to never do that again.
sergeantgiggles on 8/11/2008 at 22:53
Quote Posted by paloalto90
Or if you were sent over to Iraq maybe?Like your no longer around or have one less limb.
That's beside the point.
The reputation of the US may have been bloodied by the war and by Abu Ghraib/Gitmo, but what downfall are we talking about? The US remains an economic and military superpower, and despite the current economic crisis, I'll believe a new Great depression when I see it. The US remains a stable democracy, as is clearly evident by the fact that this whole topic is discussing an election with a peaceful outcome against the incumbent party.
Yes, I am worried about assassination, in case we are well and truly fucked.
