Rogue Keeper on 6/11/2008 at 10:46
Quote Posted by a flower in hell
Also, he supported the bailout.
All reasonable people support the bailout, unless they don't want to loose their life insurances, pension funds and general feeling of healthy socioeconomic system. :cheeky:
Here in Yurop, in countries with recent pension system reforms, governments have decided to guarantee to pay people their deposits back in case their pension fund would collapse. What a load of shit! Our SOCIAL-DEMOCRATIC government does it. What's a smart and "empathic" political move, but it's not really in accord with socialist tradition and goals. I would let the whole thing to collapse so it would make a serious shock therapy to people and we would see how deep leads the rabbit hole. Why is the nation supposed to pay compensations from their taxes to someone who's making idiotic market decisions??? Who's willing to trust casino called STOCK MARKET to generate him big pension, should accept the necessary ugly market risk.
What is more important, the Republican tandem again made impression of rednecks unskilled in the field of international relationships, who want to solve everything with force. I honestly think McCain/Palin were a threat to global peace.
Also it seems that medals from Vietnam War are seriously loosing general appeal. They didn't help Kerry, they didn't help McCain...
The only Republican I ever had respect for was Lincoln, but that was quite a long time ago.
Quote Posted by a flower in hell
Socialism just doesn't work, folks. As long as humans are human, it'll never work.
We haven't tried capitalism yet. We should give it a shot.
I'm a living proof I do work. Well it could be I'm beyond human already...
Capitalism has natural tendencies of corrupting itself. In the future the world won't need economic system in which 15 percent of the world population holds 85 percent of resources, while 85 percent of population works for well being of the above 15 percent.
What else can be called "true capitalism" if not a neoclassical free market theory of Austrian/Chicago school, I don't know. Free market Monetarists have just got a serious blow and are in disorder. Austrians are in order to be dealt with. I'm optimistic.
Quote Posted by Fringe
SOCIALISTIC COMMIE FASCISM
I like politological oxymorons.
242 on 6/11/2008 at 11:38
Quote Posted by heywood
And I don't think the Russian people are going to help. They suffered through a very painful and humiliating 1990s mostly because they followed our advice. Now that Russian power is coming back, they are very nationalistic. I haven't been to Russia myself, but I have 3 colleagues who have visited in the last couple years and they all tell me there is widespread distrust of and anger against the West, and anti-Russian conspiracy theories are rampant. Also remember that there is no free press in Russia anymore, so unless you speak a foreign language and have Internet access, you basically get the government line.
Sadly, but that's all very true from the beginning to end. They now are MUCH more consolidated than USA or Europe ever have been, which actually would be good if the consolidation wouldn't be around stupid things like hate to other nations and states that look at the world differently.
Muzman on 6/11/2008 at 12:56
This really has to be done.
Quote Posted by a flower in hell
What blows my mind is this:
So the current system is broken. I understand that, and I think we should try something else.
So why are we going to try a system that we already
know is broken?
Capitalism just doesn't work, folks. As long as humans are human, it'll never work.
We haven't tried socialism yet. We should give it a shot.
Whadaya know. Still true. Must be one of those pointless statements.
LancerChronics on 6/11/2008 at 13:09
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Actually, no it's not, it's based on (
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=411693) this.
In any case all those crusty rich white folks you hate so much, when they lose money due to taxes, will compensate by handing YOU guys the pink slip. Bring a book with you to the unemployment lines.
how ironic that both of our graphs come from the same place and yet show completely different things. But as you said before, you graph is "marginal" taxes, which is like trying to represent the Mona Lisa with a single horizontal line. It is specifically designed and plotted to make obama's tax plan look like a raise across the board, and in turn, generate prejudice towards him in groups of people who only glance at the lines in a graph and never actually seek to understand what they are looking at (looks like it worked). Fixing graphs happens to be one of my major pet peeves so I had to call it out.
And no, people aren't going to start firing people to make up for lost
personal income because I think (but not sure) that that may be illegal. They can only fire people if the company is losing money and needs to cut its losses, but with everyone on the bottom getting more cash to spend, company's will probably start doing better.
Not to mention, some of these people make twice the tax modifier IN ANNUAL INTEREST, and after a few month to a year of griping, they'll realize that even their quality of life hasn't changed at all by the increased taxes.
PS: if you check the table, people with 2.1 mil income are not going to get charged $700,000 extra in taxes. These are the averages for the group, and since the group is 2.1 mil+ annual income, it includes a shit load of people like oil barons and Bill Gates to jack up the mean several hundred thousand dollars.
D'Juhn Keep on 6/11/2008 at 15:51
Your "facts" and "rationality" have no place here.
Obama's an illuminati funded marxist and you sheeple have just gone along with it blindly :rolleyes:
Brian The Dog on 6/11/2008 at 16:20
Quote Posted by BR796164
All reasonable people support the bailout, unless they don't want to loose their life insurances, pension funds and general feeling of healthy socioeconomic system. :cheeky:
Here in Yurop, in countries with recent pension system reforms, governments have decided to guarantee to pay people their deposits back in case their pension fund would collapse. What a load of shit! Our SOCIAL-DEMOCRATIC government does it. What's a smart and "empathic" political move, but it's not really in accord with socialist tradition and goals. I would let the whole thing to collapse so it would make a serious shock therapy to people and we would see how deep leads the rabbit hole. Why is the nation supposed to pay compensations from their taxes to someone who's making idiotic market decisions??? Who's willing to trust casino called STOCK MARKET to generate him big pension, should accept the necessary ugly market risk.
I've no idea if what you say is true in Slovakia, but in the UK, the government has guarenteed the firxt X amount in each bank, but this only affects people's savings, not their pensions - people here either have a pension scheme that pays out according to how long you've worked for a company, or (more often is the case now) a pension that is index-linked to the stock market. Hence when the FTSE and other world stock markets fell recently, it clobbered people's pensions. (In reality, sensible pension fund managers move the investments over to various bonds when it gets close to retirement age, to avoid this pitfall).
The problem with letting banks go bust is this. If a bank goes bust, then two things happen - (a) all debts owed to other people are paid off as much as possible, but the creditors lose money, and (b) an insurance scheme pays the shardeholders of the collapsed bank a certain percentage of the share price. However, this has 2 enormous effects. Firstly, the insurance companies never expected any banks to go bust (they figured the governments would bail them out first), so they will struggle to afford the insurance pay (which is why AIG got in trouble in the States recently). More importantly, the creditors of the bust bank are usually other banks (who are most likely not in the best financial shape either), and they previously counted the money lent to the bust bank in their assets. So they lose a load of money, which may well tip them over the edge. This would lead to a domino effect throughout the banking industry, until (in Europe at least) only HSBC and Santandair would be left, since they're huge :D
I'm not really into economics, but I gather that governments guaranteeing deposit acocunts in banks effectively adds that amount of money onto the national debt, which is a big problem for some countries (such as the UK).
Thirith on 6/11/2008 at 17:20
Quote Posted by Muzman
This really has to be done.
...
Whadaya know. Still true. Must be one of those pointless statements.
Nice one. :D
I find it difficult to take anyone serious who believes that any clear-cut, black-and-white system will work. If human beings were perfect, socialism would bring about a utopia, as would capitalism. As would a political system based on sheepfucking, I'd wager.
Gryzemuis on 6/11/2008 at 18:18
Quote Posted by BEAR
Seriously I'm going to be so proud if my state goes Obama and gets rid of fucking Dole.
.....
I'd love to see us go Obama, that would make me fell good even if its not really that important overall.
Congratulations, BEAR. North Carolina has been called for Obama.
You can be proud of your state.
(
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/06/obama-wins-north-carolina_n_141803.html)
fett on 6/11/2008 at 18:20
What the FUCK took so long?
I cut Missouri slack because of the illiteracy and inbreeding (says the guy from Arkansas...)
