Fringe on 6/11/2008 at 01:51
1. A candidate for national office campaigning on and openly trying to grab credit for a partial nationalization of the financial system: s'coo.
2. Tweaking the upper-income tax rate by four percent: SOCIALISTIC COMMIE FASCISM
heywood on 6/11/2008 at 03:38
Quote Posted by BEAR
Something tells me that the Russian people are in no hurry to return to the cold war. And besides the Georgian conflict (which I have a feeling isn't all that we think it is), what examples of Russian Imperialism are there? Agreed they are nothing to trifle with, but we're a lot more interdependent at the moment and I would be surprised if they would openly taunt the rest of the world by invading other former satellites.
OK, examples: Supporting Serbian genocide, trying to break the Orange revolution in Ukraine, cutting off gas to Ukraine and others, cutting off oil to Latvia and Lithuania, propping up a dictator in Belarus, supporting separatists in Azerbaijan (as in Georgia), organizing riots in Estonia, strong-arming Kazakhstan into exporting its oil through the CPC instead of the Caucasus, flying strategic bombers to Venezuela for exercises, deploying short range nuclear capable missiles next to Poland. I'm sure there's more, this is what I can remember from the last year or so.
Granted, the US is not exactly lilywhite. But we need to recognize that the old Russia is coming back and we better figure out how to deal with it. Islamic terrorism is no longer the biggest threat to the West anymore.
And I don't think the Russian people are going to help. They suffered through a very painful and humiliating 1990s mostly because they followed our advice. Now that Russian power is coming back, they are very nationalistic. I haven't been to Russia myself, but I have 3 colleagues who have visited in the last couple years and they all tell me there is widespread distrust of and anger against the West, and anti-Russian conspiracy theories are rampant. Also remember that there is no free press in Russia anymore, so unless you speak a foreign language and have Internet access, you basically get the government line.
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
I can't tell you how painful it was for a so-called superpower to have elected not once, but twice (and GWB was right, can't fool me again!), the most bumbling incompetent warmongering idiot in recent history whose actions impacted the entire world.
I'm honestly sorry about that. We were waiting for the Democratic party to get its shit together. Now we just need the Republican party to get it's shit together too.
But I'm glad you said "so-called" superpower. The US President is nowhere near as powerful as people think. Militarily, the US can barely sustain one regional war! Economically, we're just one piece of the puzzle. A big piece for sure, but not much bigger than China and smaller than the EU. And the power of the U.S. President is more limited than heads of state in many other Democratic countries. If not for enablers in Congress, Bush could hardly have done shit.
I think the rest of the world has been too cavalier about blaming everything they don't like on Bush instead of holding their own leaders responsible. Perhaps with this election, other nations will become more introspective. I can't wait for the world to become truly multilateral (it already is, but people just don't realize it yet).
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Remember when Blair got in and we all thought that Labour would save us from a the Thatcherite-Major ear of utter dullness? Labour have only proceeded to be
too socially minded, so much so that it's to the detriment of common sense and any sort of meritocracy the type of which is sorely lacking in this country.
I agree with your whole post (not just the quoted part).
But I wonder. Did you arrive at the present situation courtesy of Blair, or the vested interests in Labour? From my POV, it seemed like when Blair was politically strong, he had command of his party and governed as a centrist, much like Clinton did in the US. But when he became unpopular because of Iraq, he was increasingly beholden to the "old" Labour.
a flower in hell on 6/11/2008 at 03:38
I didn't vote for mccain either. I was planning to, but then he went and backed the bailout.
when he showed his support for Wall Street welfare, I lost all interest in supporting him.
@heywood: I hope the GOP stings from this loss, and does some serious soul-searching. They only have themselves to blame for Obama's win. The Republican Party badly needs to return to its roots of minimal government, minimal federal spending, personal freedom and individual rights. It needs to divorce itself from religious extremism and domestic terrorism (anti-abortion extremists).
The current image of the Republican Party is damaged nearly beyond repair. They desperately need to shed the cloak of imperialist, religious zealotry and get back to what makes America a great nation.
McCain lost because America was tired of Bush, and McCain didn't look different enough.
Also, he supported the bailout.
BEAR on 6/11/2008 at 03:48
Why do I still think you are a foreigner? I don't know how I got that impression but even when you talk about almost voting for McCain I still cant shake the feeling you are from a eastern European country nobody has ever heard of.
Also,
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Does anyone think this will make any difference at all? Really?
A large part of why this has happened is a combination of the new Vietnam(s) of Afghanistan and Iraq and the global financial crisis.
He is perfectly placed with his promise of "change" and although I'm happy about the result and hope that this will signal a new direction for the US I'll believe it when I see it.
Remember when Blair got in and we all thought that Labour would save us from a the Thatcherite-Major ear of utter dullness? Labour have only proceeded to be
too socially minded, so much so that it's to the detriment of common sense and any sort of meritocracy the type of which is sorely lacking in this country.
Obama the idea is great. The reality might be something very different. And the fawning that many will supply, let's face it just because he is black (and is he? I thought he was half white. What is up with that?), will be really irritating. Lets see if Mandela gets an audience, one he would never have requested or wanted from McCain. And not just because the food at Obama's house will undoubtably be better.
I think you underestimate perhaps the power of perception. A feeling of optimism and hope is more than just a feeling, it in and of itself can inspire confidence in ways that might not be obvious. Think of it kind of like the placaebo effect. The knowledge that at the "helm" of our country was a bumbling fool I think was weighing us down to the point where we felt things were worse than they were, and perhaps it will swing the other way for a little while.
I think I'm nearly over feeling the need for US Hegemony in the world, not quite but almost. I've almost come to grips with the fact that empires and superpowers wax and wane, and regardless whether or not Obama brings back the so-called glory days, I think that the US has a better chance of finding our way with Obama at the lead, not because he will himself force it to happen, but he and what he represents is the framework for what can happen on its own.
You know, I also wonder just how hard it actually will be. The Bush administration being so totally inept didn't even manage to actually destroy the country, even if we talk like he did. With a half-reasonable human being in charge, surely it can't be as bad as we think it will be. Think of how easily Bush got into Iraq. Retardedly though it might have been, that kind of thing does require some coordination, surely that doesn't just work for stupid endevours like that. Surely large works can be done for good as well.
OK I don't think any of that made sense but deal with it.
madwolf on 6/11/2008 at 07:44
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Thatcherite-Major ear of utter dullness?
That's caused by all that Tory in-breeding y'know.
Along with receding chins.
Scots Taffer on 6/11/2008 at 09:02
Quote Posted by heywood
I think the rest of the world has been too cavalier about blaming everything they don't like on Bush instead of holding their own leaders responsible. Perhaps with this election, other nations will become more introspective. I can't wait for the world to become truly multilateral (it already is, but people just don't realize it yet).
Oh, the leftists in the UK were pretty angry at Tony Blair in the UK before I left, and I'm sure some of that has carried over with Brown but the problem there is that the leftists are as loony-radical in the opposite direction that I can't get any footholds with them either. My political views are definitely liberal in most areas but with a decidedly conservatists approach when it comes to economics so the Democratic party is a decent fit for my political compass.
Anyway, did dethtoll just reveal himself as a mouth-breathing republican? For shame.
rachel on 6/11/2008 at 09:07
I always find it funny to see "OMG Obama = COMMIE PINKO SOVIET AMERIKA"
I mean come on. You're the US. You guys don't even have a serious Left party, not one that has any chances anyway. If you want to see real wacko left, go to France where we have not only a bona fide Communist Party, but also several hardcore trotskyist parties raving about class warfare, that pretty much would want nothing more than eliminate business and do a good old fashioned revolution.
Of course, reasonable people would just point and laugh but they do have followers. The good thing is that so far they're so divided that every current has its own party, they can't agree on shit, so they barely have any influence on anything. But they do enter the Presidential race every time, and don't change even a comma of their program to smooth it up.
Even Our Very Beloved Dear Leader Sarko 1st, is left-er than Obama from a US point of view, and he's very much right-wing in nearly all respects.
Anyway. Had to chime in.
Koki on 6/11/2008 at 09:18
Quote Posted by a flower in hell
The current image of the Republican Party is damaged nearly beyond repair. They desperately need to shed the cloak of imperialist, religious zealotry and get back to what makes America a great nation.
I thought that was what makes America a great nation.
N'Al on 6/11/2008 at 09:30
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
Anyway, did dethtoll just reveal himself as a mouth-breathing republican? For shame.
You're honestly surprised by that? For shame. ;)
Scots Taffer on 6/11/2008 at 09:32
I just hope the poor bastard survives til his Inauguration. There's going to be a lot of crazy bastards carving his name into their shell casings.
