Either my graphics card or my power supply is failing.

R Soul on 13/5/2009 at 22:38

A couple of days ago my computer started freezing while playing a game (rFactor), and it was a genuine freeze, not just a display problem. The first couple of times there were artefacts on the screen. Sometimes the display would remain, but more often the screen would go black. The only way out of it was to physically restart the computer.

Sometimes when restarting, the power would come on and the fans would go round, but it would take several attempts for the start to be successful. Maybe things had time to cool down.

I downloaded a benchmarking/stability tester, from I found the computer would freeze when the graphics card reached a temperature of about 60-65 degrees C. The typical temperature for this card has been in the high 50s.

I've had the card (Nvidia GeForce 7300 GT) for nearly a year. It said on the box that it needed a "Minimum 400W system sower supply", but when I looked at my own power supply, I saw the label:
(http://catmanofiowa.com/RSoul/img/powersupply.jpg)
I think it's saying the max is 300W, but I decided that since I don't play ultimately high graphics games like Crysis, I'd be able to get away with it.

Yesterday I ran rFactor with the graphics detail reduced to the minimum levels, and it lasted much longer, but eventually the computer froze again.

Today I decided to just stay out of that game and see how things went, but it froze while I was browsing the internet, and I doubt the BBC website is that hard on graphics cards.

I've since taken the card out and used onboard graphics, and the computer is stable once again, but I can't be sure if it's the card or the PSU.

The computer froze when the card was under load, but why? Is the card failing, or is it that the PSU can't S enough P?

The stability after removing the card doesn't answer the question. Yes it's stable now that the card's out, but that could be because the PSU is not under so much load.

So, I would appreciate advice. I'd also appreciate it if people go easy on the jargon.

bikerdude on 13/5/2009 at 23:59

Quote Posted by R Soul

So, I would appreciate advice. I'd also appreciate it if people go easy on the jargon.

Its extremely likely the PSU is the culprit, its not able to produce the 300W anymore, at best 200W through aging over use and time.

Simple fix is to replace the PSU.

If you give me your location (so I can choose an on-line retailer in your area) and also your complete systems specs.

:cheeky:

R Soul on 14/5/2009 at 01:15

My location is in the info under my username.

System:
Mummyboard: Abit IS-10
Processor: Pentium 4, 3GHz
OS: Windows XP SP2
2 fans (CPU and case)
1 Hard Disk
2 Optical Drives (DVD+/-RW, DVD-ROM) - never used together, and neither while gaming
SoundBlaster Live! - speakers powered from wall
FireWire card - rarely used these days
2 USB Hubs - devices never all used simultaneously
NVidia GeForce 7300 GT - AGP interface & powered directly from the PSU

I think that's all that's necessary. I did suspect the PSU so I've been looking around. In your opinion, is it worth getting one that's more powerful? The next game I'll buy is Thief 4, so futureproofing is only a minor concern for me.

I found a number of sites which calculate PSU needs, and the figures come out surprisingly low (300-350). In my first post I mentioned the '400W' requirement, but in my research, I found someone saying that card makers tend to overstate the needs to make sure people don't put them in grossly underpowered systems. That, and PSU manufactures sometimes overstate the power rating.

So there you have it :D

LeatherMan on 14/5/2009 at 07:00

Sounds like overheating. Put the graphics card back but leave the side of the case off. Watch to make sure all fans spin up, then place a box fan (or similar) blowing into the case. Play a game and see if it locks up. If it doesn't lock up, add another case fan, clear out the dust, etc. You can even underclock your video card if need be.

If you still get lockups then it is most likely the PSU.

bikerdude on 14/5/2009 at 14:48

Quote Posted by LeatherMan

Sounds like overheating. If you still get lockups then it is most likely the PSU.

Try this and Ill look for a new PSU assuming you need one.

R Soul on 14/5/2009 at 22:07

I tried that, and stability returned. All the fans were going round. Then I put the side back on and put the PC back in it's place. It won't crash now.

Naturally I ran the stability tester (Furmark) and the temperature went to about 62 degrees C. I then ran rFactor for ages. One useful feature is that the computer can be told the drive the car, so I did that and let the game run for a long time, in windowed mode. I had PC Wizard running behind it, and the temperatures maxed at about 64/65.

Before I replaced the card I blew on the fan so perhaps there was some dust caught in it which I dislodged. I also swapped round two PCI cards. The graphics card is in the AGP slot, underneath that the first PCI slot is empty, then the sound card was in the next one followed by the FireWire card. I swapped the last two because the latter is smaller, making more room for air to get at the graphics card.

Maybe the problem's fixed, or maybe just delayed. So thank you both for the advice. I'll see if this remains stable now, and if not, I'll be resurrecting this thread.

bikerdude on 14/5/2009 at 22:37

Quote Posted by R Soul

Before I replaced the card I blew on the fan so perhaps there was some dust caught in it which I dislodged.

For the card to overheat, there would have been a lot of dust and if so then that dust is everywhere else within the Pc - the CPU cooler, the PSU. So go buy an air duster and grab a hoover to catch the dust as it leaves the case.

R Soul on 14/5/2009 at 22:49

The card was out when I did it, but there wasn't that much dust.

R Soul on 11/12/2009 at 22:26

Here comes the resurrection!

On a few occasions over the last few days the computer didn't exactly shut down, but all signals to the monitor ceased and it didn't respond to the 'sleep' button on my keyboard. In each case polygons with textures were on screen but I don't know if that should have caused a problem. Google Earth was one program - terrain was turned on. The other program you won't have heard of.

After forcing the computer to turn off I was able to restart it immediately with no apparent problems afterwards.

Now I can look for a 550W (reasonable figure?) power supply but what annoys me is the voltage considerations. While searching for info I've found lots of mentions of +3.3V, +5V and +12V. What I can't find is info for what voltages each component requires. E.g. does my graphics card require it's power from the 12V wire or 5V?

Is this just an example of a little knowledge being a bad thing? Maybe I'm worrying too much. Maybe a PSU that can supply 550W is bound to supply a good amount of power over all three wires.

Advice would be appreciated.

Al_B on 11/12/2009 at 22:54

Sorry - it's not quite as simple as that. Power supplies will have multiple +12V, +5V, +3.3V and -12V outputs. Sometimes this is to to make a power supply more modular, but even a cheap power supply will probably have a separate output rail for standby power.

The traditional connectors used for powering hard drives, DVD drives, floppy drives and the like only contain a +12V rail and a +5V rail. +5V was used for powering the electronic interface while +12V was used for the motors in the drives.

Cards that plug into the motherboard have more options. PCI cards can have a mixture of +12V, +5V, +3.3V and even -12V supplies - but that will depend on the version of PCI and there are limitations on how much current can be taken from each rail. For this reason, many graphics cards have an external connector to allow +12V to be supplied to it at a higher capacity than it could get from the motherboard alone.

edit
In a bid to be slightly more helpful, I wouldn't worry as much about a particular power rating of the supply as getting one that you can rely on. Depending on your budget I'd recommend you at least take a look at a PSU such as the Corsair HX520W. It's modular, has good reviews and will almost certainly do what you need. If you post your specs / configuration then I'm sure that someone here can give you more specific advice.