b1skit on 4/7/2013 at 14:04

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You're in the minority on this one, I'm afraid. I've not heard anybody complain about them who has played the game - focus tests, media or anybody who had hands on at E3. There is no option to toggle them - besides reasons of body awareness, they're also a visual queue that Garrett is crouching instead of a HUD icon.



Thief was never intended to be a 1:1 remake or a HD graphics update to the classic Thief games, nor was it ever billed as that. The aim has always been to create a unique title that builds upon the DNA of the classic Thief franchise, while innovating and covering new territory - Just as the studio did with Deus Ex: Human Revolution.



Me too!



Unfortunately not without checking with my higher ups higher up, but I'll ask.



We will be. We have only released the Garden section gameplay at this point, the painting is inside the Barons manner, which is one of the sections that will be released at a later date.



I strongly disagree. C'est la vie.



You really haven't been in a while eh? It's actually black and cyan - to match Thief's art direction ;)

Dia on 4/7/2013 at 14:37

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'From media'. Were those 'media' actually fans of the old Thief games? I've read a LOT of coverage from 'media' who've also played the E3 demo and it wasn't quite as positive as you're claiming. Try reading some of the coverage of the NuThief E3 demo over at RPS, for example.



Again; have any of those people actually played TDP, TMA, and TDS? Seriously? And were any of those 'people' with positive feedback of whom you speak NOT affiliated with EM in any way? Once again, please read some of the reviews from those who are not affiliated with EM.



Is that last remark intended to discourage us from petitioning to bring Mr. Russell back as Garrett? Though at this point, I'm rather glad that Mr. Russell won't be associated with NuThief. It'd just prove to be an embarrassment for SR in the long-run, imo.

Here we go again. Of course the EM Thief forums mods/some members are going to be oh-so-positive about NuThief. It's.what.they.do. Fine; they can try to shoot rainbows up everyone's arses all they'd like, but it doesn't change the fact that as far as a lot of us here at TTLG are concerned, EM is making a royal mess of the Thief saga. I understand that since the EM mods and some of their members are so closely affiliated with EM they really are 'expected' to spout positive feedback about NuThief; afterall, as a friend pointed out to me, during the production of any video game what you hear from the developers and studio heads is going to be 90% hype. But please stop droning on that EM 'is listening' to our complaints and suggestions. If that were the truth, Stephen Russell would be reprising his role as Garrett (in case you haven't read some of the interviews from the old LGS dev team, SR CREATED Garrett as we know him), there'd be no ridiculous parkour action and/or timed run sequences (aimed at gamers who crave action and have the attention spans of gnats), no ridiculous floating hands held out in front of NuGarrett, Hammerites, Mechanists, and Keepers would be included in the game in the capacity that they have been in the past three Thief games ('k, well, not Keepers so much, considering), and NuGarrett wouldn't look like an emo-ninja-B&D reject (wow - all that noisy, creaky leather is really designed for utmost stealth, isn't it? - and wtf is up with that ludicrous-looking corset, silly mask, and seriously emo black eyeshadow?) or sound like he'd just inhaled helium. And what's up with that ridiculous bow; reminds me of Abby Whistler's bow in Blade Trilogy. Honestly, mo-cap in a stealth game? Oh wait, that's right; it's now an action/stealth game ... or a stealth-based action game. I know, I know; you can't please everyone, right? Just the gamers who will most likely spend the most money buying NuGames because they look like they're going to be oh-so-kewl.

Then again, I do realize that NuThief is a reboot and as such EM has license to totally overhaul/change whatever suits their (and the multitude of T4 devs who've come and gone, the turnover of which must've created no small amount of chaos for EM) fancy and create their own version of the Thief world and main character. Rather like what was done to Tomb Raider (Reboot). Call it 'Thief' all you'd like; that doesn't make it a true Thief game or experience. Not with all the bastardization that's been done to the game so far. In the name of progress and reboots, of course. I mean, come on! When the majority of gamers here who say they're excited about and looking forward to T4 also wonder in the same breath just how many T4 features and options can be disabled or turned off just so they can play the game more in the 'Old Skool' manner, what does that tell you?! Guess I'm just thoroughly sick and tired of EM's propaganda that T4 Is A Thief Game Just Like The Old Thief Games and you'll agree and buy it or you're just a silly Rabid Thief Fan, a malcontent whose opinions don't count because of that fact. I've gotten the feeling recently that if there were any T4 devs at EM who really were listening to us, they were fired or left EM long ago.



Pretty much sums it up for me.



Otherwise, I wish you well.

To paraphrase: :angel:

Darkness_Falls on 4/7/2013 at 17:28

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There's a lot to soak in when you're playing the game for 15-30 minutes. Sometimes the shine starts wearing off after a bit more time, where little nitpicks like this might start popping out. That's what happened with me and various things in TDS. If EM hasn't already been doing so, maybe ask future playtesters the specific question: "Do you like that the hands are always visible when you're just walking and creeping around and not using them?"

Maybe in the .cfg file of the PC version we can be allowed to specify a vertical Y-axis height of idle hands. And maybe that customizability can be carried over to consoles. After all, the game is in pre-alpha, things can change.

b1skit on 4/7/2013 at 17:39

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I hear ya, so I just stopped by our Playtest manager Alex's desk and asked him the question on your behalf. He confirms that we've not received any feedback during any Thief playtest that the hands were bothersome when you could see them during crouch.

I really, really think it's a non-issue, you'll be immersed in the game and they'll feel completely natural in a few minutes. Don't sweat it.

Kurgan on 4/7/2013 at 17:54

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Ok, let's clear this up. First off, I did miss the second question from the host, making it sound like the next comments were regarding the forum feedback. However, he first says that they can't discuss it, pauses, then goes on to say, "so it's really awesome. And right now the guys in the studio are just like going through all the material and looking and all excited about the feedback we're getting," which does give the clear impression that the feedback is overwhelmingly positive. Either that's an outright lie, as I initially interpreted it as, or they're hearing what they want to hear, not what we're actually saying. (Kinda like ordering coffee in Australia, but they keep giving you beer. --Ok, cheap shot, but it's funny.)

Also, if you pay attention there, after the next question, his following comments do indeed digress from what was asked, and immediately begin citing sources beyond the "show floor," specifically referring to things he's read, and what journalists have told him, once again giving a clear indication that everything's just peachy.

So yeah, a minor oops on my part, but I still stand by my interpretation of the "message" this interview gives, that in the face of overwhelming cries of anger and "foul!" they're taking a cue from Microsoft and saying, "No, foolish gamers, this is what you want, not all that stuff you've actually been asking for. We know what's best, and will continue to believe the uninitiated represent all of you when they say 'Whoopee, it's great!'"



I disagree. What else were we supposed to believe was forthcoming all these years? "Thief 4" is what we were told was coming, and have worked ourselves into a frenzy of anticipation waiting for. Dropping the "4" at the last minute doesn't justify turning it into a barely recognizable reboot, nor does it dismiss our, quite understandable, expectations.

Look, I don't think any of us are saying this won't be a quality game, worthy of praise in its own right. We're simply saying you guys got so focused on making something cool and new that you kinda forgot what you started out to do. This game may revolve around a thief, but it isn't "Thief." These aren't growing pains. We're not afraid of change. Hell, I think Dishonored is an incredibly cool game. But if they'd called it Thief? Hand me my gun and pack some sandwiches. If you'd just had the awareness of what you'd done, and left the doors open for a true sequel by making this new game its own entity, with its own unique identity, I firmly believe you'd have the total support of the Thief community, not just the newly hatched taffers that don't know a Burrick from a hole in the ground and think Borderlands is "the shit!"

You want us to recognize your position and get over our grief? Ok, fine. On one condition. You recognize that we are grieving and disappointed, and not unreasonably so.



Y'know, for months I've been on the same horrified boat over this, but recently stumbled across something that could give rise to hope by way of example. War of the Roses: Kingmaker, a game published by Paradox, received the single coolest DLC of all time, one that I jumped on immediately and shouted, "take my money, dammit!" They recorded an alternate audio package featuring Brian Blessed, overwriting the existing narrator, and released it as an optional DLC for just a few bucks. It was a brilliant move and easily put more, and well deserved, money in their pockets.

I tell you now that if you did this with Stephen, we'd buy it by the truckload. Want proof? Go ahead, set up a poll or petition somewhere, then start taking bets on how quickly the server will crash.