Springheel on 8/7/2013 at 12:12
Quote:
My previous attempt at giving Springheel moderating "facts" went so well that I can't resist diving in again.
I have a great respect for facts, and appreciate your level-headed way of providing them. We just don't always interpret them the same way. :)
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Factual information? Crazy running around and swinging blackjack beats three guards, plus almost killed after two hits, plus used focus to beat them. Should have lost the fight.
Yes, you raise a good point about the focus mode in combat. It could be interpreted the way you suggest, but I wouldn't. It sounds like he tested focus in combat, but there's no indication that he used focus during the fight he was describing, especially since he described that fight in great detail and never mentioned focus until he started talking about combat _in general_.
Your point about contradiction among the EM mods themselves is also valid. Spyhopping's report on combat seems very different than the quote I posted earlier. I guess the summary on the first page only quoted the most positive information? I note that it says there "You are not on rails or blocked... you can fall to your death." Yet I recall Ashpolt specifically saying you could not walk off beams without pressing a button (and that he didn't think this was a problem). I also see these two quotes:
In the OP: "
Climbing can be done at any ledge Garrett would be able to jump and reach. it's not particularly limited. It is comprehensive and if you feel like you'd be able to climb somewhere, you're going to be able to."
Further in, Jerion says: "There are things that irked me.
Jumping and climbing appear restricted to predetermined locations. It is comprehensive and if you feel like you'd be able to climb somewhere, you're going to be able to. I hope this will change and jumping will become free-form, unrestrained by
pre-determined leaping points. "
Bakerman on 8/7/2013 at 14:33
Quote Posted by Ashpolt
I know B1skit has asked this particular question to some of the devs, not sure if there's been an answer yet though. If there is, I'm sure it'll be posted over at the official forums, and...oops, am I allowed to say that? ;)
My biggest problem with EM so far is how at the mercy of the PR machine we are. It's such a simple question, that everyone working on the game should know the answer to by now - but everything has to be kept tightly controlled, parcelled out at the opportune moment using the nicest words possible. I understand the developers want to protect the game they're making and not let misinformation and rumours spread that don't reflect the final product. And maybe that's been a difficult final product to pin down, if the stories of Thief's development process are true. But from where I stand, all that secrecy suggests is that there's something to hide.
If it's the case that EM actually
can't answer that question right now because they don't know the answer... well, that's worrying for different reasons :p.
Quote Posted by Ashpolt
As for communicating "truthfully/accurately/whatever else" - we are. I don't think there's much else any of us can do to convince anyone on here of that at this point, your minds all seem pretty firmly set, but it's the truth. And I'll continue to answer truthfully, despite all the accusations to the contrary, until I get bored and stop posting altogether. I won't bother lying to you though, because what's the point? Why would I bother?
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I think you're being dishonest, which, looking back, I did. What I meant to say was that I believe you guys are communicating respectfully, and I think everyone should recognise that, even if not everyone here believes you're communicating honestly and openly. Now, being deliberately untruthful, as some people clearly think you are, probably does imply a lack of respect for our community here, so I can understand the vitriol on some level. Nobody affiliated with EM came over here to call us crackpot reactionaries, even if that's what they think. So we should probably hold off on our own name-calling, even if it's what we think.
As for where I stand on this - I believe you are being honest with us. I know you bring your own bias to the discussion, like we locals do. And I'm not personally convinced that I will feel the same way you do about the new Thief - partly because of my biases. I just want a better calibre of discussion :p. There's a reason we don't fight fire with fire, kids! It just makes more fire everywhere!
Renault on 8/7/2013 at 16:27
Quote Posted by New Horizon
Yeah, some of the behavior with the EM Mods is getting a bit out of hand....and embarrassing.
Agreeing with this too. No matter what anyone thinks about someone else's actions/opinions, there's no reason not to keep it civil. Remember, you're representing this awesome community every time you post something. Some of the responses I've seen to some of the EM folks' comments had made me embarrassed to be an active participant here.
Goldmoon Dawn on 8/7/2013 at 16:44
Quote Posted by Springheel
In the OP: "
Climbing can be done at any ledge Garrett would be able to jump and reach. it's not particularly limited. It is comprehensive and if you feel like you'd be able to climb somewhere, you're going to be able to."
Quote Posted by Springheel
Further in, Jerion says: "There are things that irked me.
Jumping and climbing appear restricted to predetermined locations. It is comprehensive and if you feel like you'd be able to climb somewhere, you're going to be able to. I hope this will change and jumping will become free-form, unrestrained by
pre-determined leaping points. "
Earlier in this thread...
Quote Posted by b1skit
This stuff seems to have been really
blown out of proportion here on TTLG - you guys really need to start fact checking some stuff :)
There is only an "unglue" button, as you call it, at extreme heights - your normal exploration abilities are just as they were in the classic games.
You can climb up onto, say, garden beds,
bookshelves, etc,
and drop off just like you could in the classic Thief games. You can also vault over smaller obstacles smoothly, which feels great.
No free roaming exploration? I really hope that biskits latest statement about this is the honest truth, because for a true Thief fan, this is one of several deal breakers. It may not be a deal breaker for buying the damn game, bit it most certainly is a deal breaker in terms of enjoying a higher level of complex game play.
I believe it to be generally accepted that the main reason the last Thief title lived a short life is because the core game play from Dark Project was essentially absent from the title. Severely crippled free form, no ropes, no water, and limited choices with which to explore largely forgettable Missions. Looking back, personally, the only thing I really remember about the game was the city hub thing with different days. That was interesting enough to leave a lasting impression on me. The reasons that Deadly Shadow is amazingly still looked upon fondly are simple. It had the atmospheric 1st person view world with a Light Gem planted at the bottom of the screen, replete with Eric Brosius sonic magic. It had Hammers, Pagans, and Keepers as well as Stephen Russell as the beloved Garrett.
Unfortunately, the game play was quite substandard and the game faded into obscurity. What I truly dont understand about creating a title linked with the Thief franchise is the choice to remove all of the previous elements that reminded us enough of Thief to actually buy Deadly and instead focus on increasing its substandard "AAA" game play mechanics.
Fanaticism aside, the biggest disappointment by far for this game would be for it to be just another awesome looking mindless action game with little to no replay value, thus dwindling the majestic legacy of Looking Glass Studios to ash. Oh the horror and unbridled pestilence of these foolish acts!
I can already see LGS turning over in its burial chamber.
:ebil:
Vivian on 8/7/2013 at 18:05
TDS didn't fade into obscurity?
Goldmoon Dawn on 8/7/2013 at 18:09
Overall lack of relevancy, not obscurity, to be more exact.
Thief: The Dark Project, II, T2X, and Dark Mod are the reasons that we are still talking about Thief today. Not Deadly, not Thi4f, none of it.
Gvozdika on 8/7/2013 at 18:16
And that in turn is the reason why you are bound to be stuck in the past forever. And also why noone on the outside bothers about opinion around here. Which kind of got this thread started, right?
Renault on 8/7/2013 at 18:59
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
Thief: The Dark Project, II, T2X, and Dark Mod are the reasons that we are still talking about Thief today. Not Deadly, not Thi4f, none of it.
Yeah, because no one is talking about Thief 4 right now. :p Not to mention it's not even really a game yet, as it won't be released for another year!
Try not to go so far out of your way to intentionally hate something.
Goldmoon Dawn on 8/7/2013 at 19:14
I do appreciate the concern, Brother Brethren, but I was being as tame as possible. :ebil:
Chade on 8/7/2013 at 22:31
Quote Posted by Springheel
I have a great respect for facts, and appreciate your level-headed way of providing them. We just don't always interpret them the same way. :)
Thank you. For my part, it's nice to have reasonable people to argue with.
Quote Posted by Springheel
Your point about contradiction among the EM mods themselves is also valid. Spyhopping's report on combat seems very different than the quote I posted earlier. I guess the summary on the first page only quoted the most positive information? I note that it says there "You are not on rails or blocked... you can fall to your death." Yet I recall Ashpolt specifically saying you could not walk off beams without pressing a button
Well, I don't find the contradiction between players surprising ... in fact, I'd probably trust them less if they didn't contradict each other to some extent. You see people have different experiences with games all the time. (Perhaps especially games with some level of simulation to them?)
I always loved those Deus Ex threads where someone would get up and complain that approach X was completely overpowered and obviously favored over everything else, and then a few pages later someone else would start saying the same thing about approach Y.
And everyone involved has only had a small amount of time with the game, so their respective thoughts are based off a very small sample of game experiences.
As for the b1skit's summary, to be honest I barely looked at it. These sort of concerns are why I decided to make my own summary. Which reminds me I should probably update my summary and split out some of the categories. I kinda wish I'd put links from my summary to the original sources, because I find I keep wanting to go back and check out the original posts, but it's a bit late now ...
