Ashpolt on 6/7/2013 at 20:08
Quote Posted by Brethren
It's very sensible. The most positive comments about the demo are coming from people who are directly associated with Eidos. It doesn't matter that they aren't paid employees, they are moderators. And because of that, they potentially stand to gain or lose based on what they say. My apologies to you, I know you're the odd man out here Ashpolt, but I think if you look at it objectively from our point of view, you should understand how the whole thing looks more than a little crooked. Even if they're all being 100% truthful, it still
looks questionable. Especially considering the contradictory opinions on the web from all the non-Eidos people.
Just like it looks a little odd that suddenly, out of the blue, you, b1skit, and skyhopping have all decided to start posting here in the last 3-4 days, defending EM. Just coincidence, right?
I understand how it looks, absolutely, but similarly you've got to realise that how it looks and the reality of the situation aren't always the same thing.
But that's besides the point here: Captain Spandex's claim that the community attendees were only chosen because we were already being positive about Thief even prior to seeing footage is flat out, provably false - and yet he claimed it as if it were unquestionable fact. That's what I was referring to when I said "Keep it sensible."
As for us all turning up at the same time: no, it isn't coincidence. I talk to the other guys on Skype fairly often - in a friendly capacity and nothing else, before anyone questions it - and someone noticed that B1skit had started posting on here. We came over, saw the responses and wanted to add our own two cents. That's it!
Shinrazero on 6/7/2013 at 20:20
Quote Posted by Ashpolt
I understand that you guys aren't happy about what you've seen of the game so far, and that's fair enough - misguided, I feel, but it's your opinion. Making baseless and provably wrong accusations like this though just weakens the strength of any valid concerns you might have. Keep it sensible.
Misguided? Please tell me how to be better guided. :rolleyes: EM has basically taken the approach of we will do whatever we like and that's fine but in the end, they want my money and unfortunately I see this game is Thief in title alone. It is unfortunate too. I want to see this series continue in its greatness. Taking away the voice actor that
defined Garrett and turning him into an emo, opiate addict is not Thief. Including things like the bridge escape, QTE is not Thief. Rope arrows that can only be used in specific spots? Not Thief. Where's the charm, the quirks, nuances that made Thief great? Misguided? Please.
Springheel on 6/7/2013 at 20:45
Quote:
I understand how it looks, absolutely, but similarly you've got to realise that how it looks and the reality of the situation aren't always the same thing.
If lots of knowledgable people were posting positive reviews about the gameplay, then it wouldn't be an issue that the EM forum reports are so positive. But the fact is, there are a number of respected game journalists, familiar with the franchise, who have posted fairly negative reviews after E3. Rock Paper Shotgun and SneakyBastards are two prime examples, but there are many others.
In some cases, the feedback is in direct contradiction with the EM thread, and it also seems to fit what can be observed by anyone in the gameplay trailers.
What's a fan to think?
Ashpolt on 6/7/2013 at 21:01
Quote Posted by Springheel
If lots of knowledgable people were posting positive reviews about the gameplay, then it wouldn't be an issue that the EM forum reports are so positive. But the fact is, there are a number of respected game journalists, familiar with the franchise, who have posted fairly negative reviews after E3. Rock Paper Shotgun and SneakyBastards are two prime examples, but there are many others.
In some cases, the feedback is in direct contradiction with the EM thread, and it also seems to fit what can be observed by anyone in the gameplay trailers.
What's a fan to think?
In the case of the RPS interview, you should definitely trust us instead. I know RPS are usually great, but their Thief preview was littered with inaccuracies that genuinely made me question how much attention they'd been paying when they played, or even if they had actually played it at all. I've posted pointing out those inaccuracies before, and Spyhopping followed up - (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141869&page=4&p=2198219&viewfull=1#post2198219) links to both posts can be found in post #85 of this very thread, in fact. I asked the author RPSs article, Nathan Grayson, about the inaccuracies of the piece, but he never responded.
As for SneakyBastards: their article at least reads like they've actually read the game. Obviously their opinion just differs from mine. That's fine, but far from proof positive that the game isn't any good. No matter what you make, there are going to be some people who don't like it - variety is the spice of life and all that.
You say there are "many other" examples of negative previews from large sites - can you please post some, or PM them to me? I'd be interested to read them, but whenever I ask for negative previews, people just link to those same two articles. So if there really are plenty of negative previews from people who have actually played the game (rather key point there - someone on the official forums quoted an article that started "So I was talking to a friend on Skype who had seen a video of the Thief demo..." No, sadly, I'm not kidding) then please link me!
MensaLaureate on 6/7/2013 at 21:04
Quote Posted by Ashpolt
Captain Spandex's claim that the community attendees were only chosen because we were already being positive about Thief even prior to seeing footage is flat out, provably false.
Not sure how you can prove that. I've slogged through 1000s of the posts from the people who went to E3 and have yet to see any post that can even be remotely construed in the teeniest tiniest sense as negative towards the Thief game. What you are saying Aspholt is 180 degrees from reality. And as we all know, perception is reality. It looks like a duck.....it walks like a duck.....it quacks like a duck....it must be a duck.
Sure, there is a chance that the people who went to E3 were just regular people who joined the EM site because they loved Thief, honestly loved everything they saw, never even had a bad thought about the game, never received one red cent for their mod work, and were never told what to say when they got back. Sure it's possible, but so is me getting struck by lightning on the way to collect my lottery winnings.
It just doesn't add up, Aspholt. Every single media outlet...every...single....one.....leaned towards the negative about Thief. Without exception. Conversely, anyone affiliated with EM just didn't lean towards the positive, they fully embraced it without a single negative word uttered.
I smell something.
Silverwolf on 6/7/2013 at 23:40
Ashpolt:
The main reason you have no credibility with me is this (I'm going to make up a few numbers). DE:HR didn't have some features and mechanics of Deus Ex. Let's say DE was 10 and DE:HR was 5 (meaning half as many features, etc). Thief 4 is a 3. It's missing much more Thief than DE:HR is missing DE. You criticized DE:HR, yet you have almost no criticisms of Thief 4 (except to 1-2 very minor things). and you praise Thief 4 as a great game. You are not really critical of Thief 4 which is missing a lot of what was in other Thief games. You want us to accept yours and EM over everyone else? Not happening in this lifetime.
Chade on 7/7/2013 at 02:48
Springheel:
The only negative thing the vg article says is that the dark areas looked to bright. EM E3 players: did you ask the devs about that at any point?
The illgaming article is kinda wierd. He says a bunch of completely reasonable things, then out of the blue comes out and says he has mixed feelings in the final paragraph, with no indication of what caused him to have mixed feelings. I don't think there is any meat in there for EM's E3 players to respond to.
The padinga article doesn't complain about the stealth gameplay at all, he just complains about the burning bridge section, which I know at least some of EM's E3 players also said was weak.
I think we've already talked about the giantbomb article, can't be bothered looking at it again right now.
Overall, bright dark areas plus bridge section seems to account for the majority of the complaints I can recall in the negative E3 articles we've seen. Personally, I'm not too interested about bridge section complaints (they've said it's not a big part of the game), and I wouldn't be surprised if the gamma was just quite high for the E3 demo, although obviously I'm not going to rule out something worse based on what we know so far.
Springheel on 7/7/2013 at 03:39
Quote:
Springheel:
The only negative thing the vg article says is that the dark areas looked to bright.
That's not the
only negative thing he says...he also makes some sarcastic comments about the AI not being very aware, and suggests the combat is not particularly difficult...comments that are echoed in the RPS article.
But that aside, I was just responding to Ashpolt's requests for examples of negative reviews from people who played the game, other than RPS and Sneakybastards. I wasn't trying to find the most comprehensive list of complaints available.
