buglunch on 9/12/2003 at 04:06
The one thing Ion Storm should have learned from DX1 was to hone the AI so it didn't do goofy things. The demo and comments from the full game imply they have not addressed this. Enemies don't have to douse each other when on fire but they still seem to do ridiculous things. Give your examples, like enemies treadmilling into walls or being too alert when far from the action.
Epos Nix on 9/12/2003 at 04:18
I didn't have too much of a problem with the AI in either Deus Ex game. They weren't too smart but they served their purpose, even if they were limited in how they went about it. The only thing that irked me was how some npcs could destroy barriers you set up for them simply by walking into it. For whatever reason this happens in both DX 1 and 2 :erg:
Now, for emergent gameplay, I'm finding Half-Life 2 is the place to be. I don't think the creators intended for zombies to be able to (
http://www.kmso.net/rollerzombie.jpg) balance and roll on barrels while coming after you ;) Oddly enough, knocking the barrel out from under him (
http://www.kmso.net/sitdown.jpg) made him bow to me. I like my zombies humble :D
BlackCapedManX on 9/12/2003 at 04:34
So I'm in cairo, and I'm confronted by a bunch of thugs asking for money. Without giving away the plot I will say that it was for a noble cause, so I do so. Then all three of them crowd around each other. So I'm talking to one of them (or rather frobbing him to see what he has to say), and he says "Only a brave or stupid man walks alone out here." Then, as I watch, he bursts into flames and screams "IT BURNS!" Turns out he stood too close to a flaming barrel when they crowded together.
So I reload, not wanting my money to go to waste (I mean, if they die right after taking it, what good does it do me to have given it to them?). I go through the conversation again. Only this time after the guy screams "It burns!" and runs around on fire, he runs by one of his friends, damaging them, then falling to the ground dead in flames. The one undamaged no identifies the damaged one as an enemy, and pulls out his boltcaster and shoots the guy up with a tranq dart. The guy (who is standing on the burns corpse of his fallen friend) mutters "...some kind of, poison" then lights on fire with "IT BURNS!", then dies, but not before lighting his boltcaster happy friend on fire too.
It took me about 4 tries before I could manage to successfully knock the barrel away from them so that none of them would light on fire (the conversation activates automatically before I get to the barrel, so I can't move it before the guy goes to stand next to it). Talk about dumb AI. Apparently humans in the future just can't handle open flame (I can imagine it, just like my friend's beagle who can't understand why his ass is cold so he sits in the snow, we will not understand why we become so extraordinarily hot, so we will continual to brace ourselves against this flaming barrel and ponder it.) I love the omar though, I can beat the crap out of a bouncer right in front of one of them and he will wander around searching for who could have done it (distinctly reminds me of the guards in thief.... a lot of this game reminds me of the engine used with thief and SS2) but surely it was not I, because I am a "preferred customer".
D'Juhn Keep on 9/12/2003 at 12:39
Hehehe, sounds like the kind of thing that people reload in order to get to happen.
scumble on 9/12/2003 at 14:16
That's the trouble. NPCs in games are still inherently stupid, but what fun you can have with them.
SneaksieDave on 9/12/2003 at 15:02
BlackCapedManX, I'd be laughing (well, longer ;)) if that wasn't so pitifully sad. So much for Deus Ex2. :tsktsk:
Epos Nix, I don't have (nor have I ever seen) the leak - is it really all it's cracked up to be? Or does it fall somewhat short of expectation, too? (seems like everything does...)
Any other screenshots? They look really good.
MechLean on 9/12/2003 at 15:18
I'm currently playing through coward style (no weapon use), which may not be as the designers intended (I'm finding small levels and long load time from CD protection to KILL immersion)., so I see a lot of weird AI foibles. It appears that AI are completely blind to locational damage. I've had many major and minor characters commit suicide by running into hazards I've avoided rather than dealing with.
Also, I've had some weird aliances changes, such as running to the cops when being mugged and having the police start shooting ME. It would be much better if they implemented barks stating what the AI was doing and WHY! (Such as, 'So it was YOU who was responsible for that mess!')
Not directly an AI problem, but with the levels being so short, its TOO easy to run away:
SOLDIER: KILL HIM! DON'T LET HIM GET AWAY!
ME: --running away, getting shot at-- Got... to... get... away
SOLDIER: HE'S LEAVING THE BUILDING! STOP HIM!
ME: --LOADING NEW LEVEL......--
Outside the building... silence....
ME: Where did they all go?? I'm alive?? Why aren't they chasing me?
--nothing happens--
ME: Why didn't they tell me of this special power earlier?! I can teleport through DOORS than no one else can? Cool!
Epos Nix on 9/12/2003 at 20:02
SneaksieDave,
Don't wanna derail the topic, so I'll just say that I'm very impressed with what's in the leak (considering the thing is hardly an alpha) and it shows a whole lot of promise. The fact that I've kept this massive 3 gig thing on my harddrive as long as I have while DX2 and others have met the recycle bin should speak for itself. :)
Someone asked me to show them my rolling zombie and I needed a way to test (
www.fraps.com) fraps anyway, so here's a small vid of my balancing zombie to show a small bit of the game (7 meg): (
http://www.kmso.net/rollerzombie.wmv)
SneaksieDave on 9/12/2003 at 20:55
Epos Nix, :) ROFL, thanks for the vid.
*sigh*, wishing Ion had licensed Source...
/derail
Zaphod on 9/12/2003 at 21:07
BlackCapedGuy -
That's just good comedy. I mean, I agree with SneaksieDave that it's also kind of sad. But mostly funny as hell.
