Starker on 18/11/2024 at 10:40
I can't really recall any big RPGs that focused on character storylines and romance subplots to the extent that Bioware did, except perhaps Planescape: Torment and some Obsidian sequels to Bioware games, which is perhaps not really surprising given the incestuous relationship that was going on with Black Isle/Bioware and who knows what influences it carried over to P:T. But even in P:T (possibly the strongest contender with Morte and Dak'kon standing out in particular), a lot of the focus is still spent on revealing the backstory of the Nameless One rather than the relationship dynamics themselves. I'd say Black Isle / Obsidian went more in their own direction with romance and character relationships, deconstructing the tropes, rather than adhering to them in the way Bioware did.
As for the rest, in Fallout 1 in particular the character storylines are very barebones and more of a background flavour. There's barely any character development or change in relationship. In Ultima, the companions certainly take part in the story and undergo some drastic changes, but I wouldn't say there's any real dynamic relationship going on with the Avatar and no romance options. Betrayal at Krondor was indeed strong in the story department, but not really in the sense of dynamic Biowarian companion relationships.
Sulphur on 18/11/2024 at 11:05
I called out FO1 as an example of a story-focused RPG, I agree it doesn't do a lot of character building per se. Ultima 7 did actually have a romance, Nastassia, who can be found at the Shrine of Compassion. It doesn't go very far, but it exists.
I don't think Bioware brought anything new to RPGs or even made anything mainstream. What it did was make a formula popular by distilling elements that existed previously in a more disperse form in the genre and put more focus on them - though BG1, for all I remember of it, was more combat and exploration than complex or dynamic intepersonal relationships. When BG1 was released, it was hailed as the revival of the CRPG more than anything else, right? By virtue of that, Bioware was able to solidify the base it had established in the next bunch of RPGs it developed. The elaboration of character dynamics and romances happened in BG2 to some extent, and then it evolved along the path of NWN and KoTOR; but by then, we'd already had Obsidian carving its own path through those areas like you mentioned.
Starker on 18/11/2024 at 11:17
I was talking specifically about Bioware's focus on romance and character storylines, topics that had been mainly the realm of mainstream media, but were barely touched on in games and particularly in western RPGs. I didn't mean to claim anything near as bold as them having invented story-focused RPGs, if you somehow managed to get that impression.
As I said, elements of this were already present in BG1, but I wouldn't say that BG1 radically changed anything either. But that was the start of it. BG2 already had more in-depth companion plotlines and romance options. And NWN and Jade Empire took it even further and in a much more tropified direction.
Sulphur on 18/11/2024 at 11:22
Fair enough! I thought you were saying that character-led stories and romance were unique to them when they busted out onto the scene in 1998. They did evolve their house style over time and make it about character-led stories with a healthy smattering of romance in the years between BG1 and DA: Inquisition, the zenith of that formula being (IMO) ME1-3. No doubt they did that with more focus than most other RPGs chose, and still choose to these days.
Malf on 18/11/2024 at 15:12
Oh, also, regarding romance, I didn't woo a single companion, but the game DID let me play matchmaker for three couples, which as I've said before, I much prefer.
It's still not the level of Cupiditry I crave, but it's a welcome continuation of a trend towards supporting at least some kind of romantic meddling.
Starker on 18/11/2024 at 15:31
Something similar happened in Dragon Age 2, I recall, which was kind of novel at the time.
Aja on 17/1/2025 at 05:54
The Russian trolls must be pleased with how well you spread their message. Too bad you're not getting paid for it like they are.
Sulphur on 17/1/2025 at 06:26
Guess he'll have to get that Stellar Blade copy out of pocket, oh well. I await the poorly framed screenshots of T&A and predigested youtube dumbass talking points with breath less than bated.
In other news, Veilguard seems pretty good in the overall design and meat and potatoes combat, even if some of its writing seems a bit superficial at this remove. Imma get it sooner or later.
Malf on 17/1/2025 at 09:30
With a bit of distance from the bombast of the final act, I still like the game and think it's a good entry in the series.
And I stand by my opinion that in this day and age where a lot of triple-A titles release in an almost fundamentally broken state, Veilguard's stability and almost complete lack of bugs is something to be genuinely celebrated by any gamer, and it should stand as an example for others to aspire to on that alone.
I do think they rather beat you around the head with Taash's sexuality; but that's not an objection to the portrayal of a non-binary character in the game; rather that said portrayal can lack nuance, and that it's focussed on so heavily, it makes the character rather one-note.
They still have some great one-liners though, and their relationship with Emmerich is genuinely interesting.
There is also the uncomfortable thought that for two games in a row now, the characters with the most unusual (for wont of a better word) sexualities have both been Qunari, and I worry that maybe they're unconsciously normalising the "otherness" of those sexualities.
But I'm probably reading too much into it.
