Zygoptera on 7/2/2009 at 04:52
It's also that DA was never going to be a sandbox type game like those Bethesda makes. Wishing that it were is like wishing that Quake had the strong story and heavy hitting dialogue DA is meant to have if you believe its hype- it's a perfectly reasonable wish, except that there is no prospect of it happening, there was never any realistic prospect of it happening and the best you're likely to get from stating it is a load of people saying "no you're wrong".
Ostriig, old bean, you've forgotten the [intelligence] tag.
vurt on 7/2/2009 at 08:20
Quote Posted by Ostriig
Your comments were a fallacy from the get-go, in that you stated that just because Bethesda handle interactivity "better" than
other companies
That IS indeed my opinion. I can't express why i think Bioware sucks, in a thread where other forum members express what they think about bioware and Bethesda, please explain why. That i won't change what Bioware thinks doesn't count. Opinions aren't fallacy, get over yourself.
Quote:
Interactivity is indeed the trademark of the medium, but in the absence of a fittingly compelling narrative setting it's only good enough to power a sandbox toy and nothing more.
Yeah because again, you can't have it all, it's all about the companies prioritizing different things, and I actually think their games kind of suck, Morrowind got really good like 2-3 years after release, Oblivion is just starting getting _really_ good, it will be the same with FO3, thanks to the modding community.
What i DO, really like, with Bethesda is the sandbox-thinking they have and their approach to interactivity, exploring, choice of engine (hate when RPG's has to load between zones, total immersion breaker right there), modding, the rest kind of sucks.. Oblivion even had quit bland world design, especially compared to MW which had a more interesting setting, imo.
I know Bioware have another approach, which is what i've said all along, and i don't agree with, that's all, but even they had a different approach to their games in the begining, BG was way more open and unlinear and sandbox-like than the utter linear crap that ME is.. with NWN they had at least a bit sandbox approach too, especially since they do encourage modding and have a very creative community. Unfortuntately the modding capabilites are way more limited with that engine.
Koki on 7/2/2009 at 08:40
So what you're saying is, Bioware makes games, Bethesda makes modding tools and leaves it at that.
vurt on 7/2/2009 at 08:58
Quote Posted by Koki
So what you're saying is, Bioware makes games, Bethesda makes modding tools and leaves it at that.
Yeah that's the way i've always seen their games, they build a base and gives the mod community a bit of inspiration "these are the kind of things you can do with our engine, now mod away". But I really doubt that Bethesda themselves thinks that way about their games (they're probably just as big headed as Bioware, thinking their stories and dialogues are A-quality products, even though they most likely are written in-house by an amateur in the field).
They might have gotten a bit better with FO3 which i enjoyed playing unmodded, but it's hard to play and NOT think "can't wait 'till they mod this.. and that.", you get spoiled with their modding community i guess..
Bethesda are more about world immersion /make your own stories, while Bioware is more about story immersion and C-movie-like linear gameplay (which i don't think have a place in RPGs at all, the reason i loathe JRPG's too.)
Bioware makes RPG's with "good" story, "good" dialogue, "interesting" characters (for a game), the rest is really flawed (even more flawed than their, supposedly, "good" story etc), absolutely zero world immersion with NPC's that will stand in one spot day and night (well ok, ME doesnt even have day/night cycles i just remembered..)
Stitch on 8/2/2009 at 00:07
I enjoy Bioware games and Bethesda games and I'm pretty much awesome.
Koki on 8/2/2009 at 13:54
LOL NO YOU DONT YOU IDORT
gunsmoke on 8/2/2009 at 15:43
This thread is like a freakin' rollercoaster.
mrle01 on 8/2/2009 at 20:49
Quote Posted by vurt
Bethesda is the sandbox-thinking they have and their approach to interactivity, exploring, choice of engine (hate when RPG's has to load between zones, total immersion breaker right there).
Quote Posted by vurt
absolutely zero world immersion with NPC's that will stand in one spot day and night
Didn't Morrowind have load zones every minute or so, even when entering houses and didn't NPC stand in one spot all the time, even on nights? And Morrowind didn't even have a dialogue system. Don't know if they fixed that in Oblivion, haven't played for more than half an hour.
I was just wondering if you ever played first two Gothic games, because in my opinion they handled this open worldness much better than Betsheda games.
vurt on 8/2/2009 at 21:12
Quote Posted by mrle01
Didn't Morrowind have load zones every minute or so, even when entering houses and didn't NPC stand in one spot all the time, even on nights? And Morrowind didn't even have a dialogue system. Don't know if they fixed that in Oblivion, haven't played for more than half an hour.
I was just wondering if you ever played first two Gothic games, because in my opinion they handled this open worldness much better than Betsheda games.
No, even Morrowind had NPC schedules, if it wasnt there originally it was at least modded in later (i never played it fully unmodded), but it wasnt very advanced.
Their games aren't fully seamless, there's a bit of stutter every 20-30 seconds or so when it loads meshes/textures (this can be avoided by putting the .bsa's into a RAM-drive, if you have like 8GB or more ram), and it loads for 1-2 seconds when you go into a town (this is improved by the mod "open cities" which puts the cities into the rest of the game world) and same for dungeons.
I love the Gothic series (except for 3), but i don't know if i agree that they handle the openness any better, the zones are quite big but you still have to wait for new areas to be loaded, and it's way longer than in Oblivion or Morrowind. The Dialogue system isn't very good no, but nothing that bothered me the least.
Koki on 8/2/2009 at 21:18
Quote Posted by vurt
No, even Morrowind had NPC schedules, if it wasnt there originally it was at least modded in later (i never played it fully unmodded)
But you have no problem in giving your opinion about it's general quality.
