dracflamloc on 23/3/2005 at 18:16
Quote Posted by Weasel
If everything was in the same archive, it wouldn't be a big deal if those extra files were extracted to the Thief3 folder anyway, would it? Someone doing a manual install would presumably know enough to know what's going on with those files anyway.
Yes but I'd like to keep the Thief folder itself as clean as possible.
This thing has the potential to become extremely messy.
I don't think 4 or 5 files in a FM directory is a big deal maintenance-wise, do you?
Rosd on 23/3/2005 at 18:37
The more files you can keep in the file archive, the better. The perfect way to be able to install a mission would be dropping one file in a certain folder, no extracting an ini file to a certain directory containing another archive file, then you're getting into unecessary steps and annoying the user :)
main archive:
--mission.ini
--readme.html (or txt, whatever)
--install:
----Required mission files (gamesys, .ibt files, etc)
dracflamloc on 23/3/2005 at 18:44
It really doesnt get much simpler. Download fmission.zip from thiefmissions.com, extract to C:\FanMissions
Run FleshLoader.
You're done.
If it becomes a problem later on I'll make it so its all in one zip. For now this is easier for testing and designing.
Rosd on 23/3/2005 at 18:51
Yeah, but why extract if it's not necessary to? Just for the two sample FM's that are included with the new version of Fleashloader are 10 files in the FM folder. I'm not going to look forward to cleaning out old, unused or broken missions when you have 10 or more installed. For ten FM's, you suddenly have 50 files, instead of just the ten archives that you could have in there.
dracflamloc on 23/3/2005 at 18:53
The FMs don't have to be in the exact same folder.
Under your FM folder you could have:
C:\FMs
-\Cathedral
---cath.fmi
-\House
---house.fmi
etc...
Anyway its a moot point. It'll be changed later if the need arises.
Weasel on 23/3/2005 at 18:58
Quote Posted by Rosd
Yeah, but why extract if it's not necessary to? Just for the two sample FM's that are included with the new version of Fleashloader are 10 files in the FM folder. I'm not going to look forward to cleaning out old, unused or broken missions when you have 10 or more installed. For ten FM's, you suddenly have 50 files, instead of just the ten archives that you could have in there.
Exactly. One file per fm would be perfect (just like Darkloader). If your loader is good enough, why would anyone want to install manually anyway? Why make concessions for those weirdos that do? And if you need to make a concession, just have a new standard sub-directory in the main Thief3 directory, and have all the extra files go in there in a manual install.
One file is good not only for deleting old missions from your fm folder, but also for managing the fms in other ways--for example, putting the good ones on a CD for your friend.
dracflamloc on 23/3/2005 at 19:02
Holy crap. Drop the subject. Complaining about whether there is 1 or 5 files on your drive is not going to get us anywhere. Also note that the .ico, .html, and .txt files are not required.
Anyway... hopefully soon I will have a beta for you to try out for installing/playing the FMs.
SneaksieDave on 23/3/2005 at 19:17
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but the discussion in the few most recent posts is sounding odd. Darkloader got it right and definitely should serve as the model. One INI for the loader that keeps track of everything installed and that has ever been installed. FMs should be installed from an archive file, not from user-extracted directories(???). In the latter case, there'd be three copies on the drive - the archive, the expanded archive folder, and the installed version. :weird:
But I digress - perhaps I'm misunderstanding, as I haven't run the program.
dracflamloc on 23/3/2005 at 20:39
You are misunderstanding. There will be this for now:
Archive downloaded, and extracted to a FM folder.
That archive is then deleted.
Left on the hard drive is an archive with the FM maps, etc.
Also on the hard drive is a .fmi file with all the info regarding the FM. (archive name, description info, etc)
Thats it. I don't see the big deal...
Lets put this in a another perspective shall we:
Say everything was packed into one file. Now, when starting up FleshLoader, it must extract and verify the icons, description, and fmi for each FM. When saving the settings, it must create the fmi file and repack it back into the archive for the FM. Also when installing to the Thief directory, it makes copies of the fmi, icon, description into it since they are in this single archive. From a management point of view this is a pain in the ass for Thief 3. In Thief 1 and 2 there was a much simpler structure for levels and content and settings. Since we are essentially trying to mod a hacked up mod with Thief 3 using a hacked up editor, and the game layout on disk is messy and for some features will require some nasty hacks, throwing those files in there will just make things more annoying to clean up.
I suggest if you want this to be a clone of Darkloader that you look somewhere else. The features will be there, if the implementation is a bit different thats too bad. I didn't write Darkloader and its much harder to emulate a different coders technique when you can't look at the source, especially when its for a totally different product.
Face it, Thief 3 is much more complex (maybe needlessly so, but the fact is that it is more complex) than Thief 1 and 2 are from a file layout standpoint, and therefore the implementation must be reconsidered.
Example:
Thief 2 Folder Structure:
├───MOVIES
├───RES
└───SAVES
Thief 3 Folder Structure:
├───CONTENT
│ └───T3
│ ├───Bitmaps
│ ├───Books
│ │ ├───content
│ │ └───English
│ │ ├───Briefings
│ │ ├───DeBriefings
│ │ ├───MovieSubtitle
│ │ ├───SplashTexts
│ │ └───String_Tags
│ ├───Conversations
│ ├───Flags
│ ├───LipsincData
│ │ └───Controllers
│ ├───Maps
│ ├───MatLib
│ │ └───DynamicallyLoaded
│ ├───PCTextures
│ │ ├───DynamicallyLoaded
│ │ └───Fonts
│ ├───Sounds
│ ├───TagDatabase
│ │ ├───CompiledDatabases
│ │ ├───SourceDatabases
│ │ └───Vocabularies
│ ├───UTX
│ └───VideoTextures
├───FM
└───System
├───Data
└───Shaders
├───SaveGames
│ ├───Current Save
│ └───User Options
├───Saves
│ └───SaveGames
│ ├───1728F326-E2BA2661-7F53C3FA-923EB65B-FD40873A
│ ├───5CDB9F51-83113E73-D2B3EA0A-7E69C3B1-1D3ADF6F
│ ├───8D0338E5-FE13D3A6-66E0F7D8-99A1A441-7728D558
│ ├───Current Save
│ └───User Options
ZylonBane on 23/3/2005 at 20:58
Quote Posted by dracflamloc
You are misunderstanding. There will be this for now:
Archive downloaded, and extracted to a FM folder.
Why can't your loader extract the archive itself? The entire POINT of a loader is maximum convenience.
