Doom, Quake, the original Team Fortress, etc. - by Qooper
ZylonBane on 30/12/2020 at 22:53
This reminds me of how hard I roll my eyes when I see someone running diagonally in a Thief or SS2 video. Yeah you move like 10% faster but you also look like a fool doing it.
Twist on 30/12/2020 at 22:57
It's really quite a bit different than that with strafe-jumping in Quake, but I know better than to pick a fight with you, so bring on the eye rolls. :thumb:
Nameless Voice on 30/12/2020 at 23:01
I think my point was more that, because bunny-hopping exists, and because it is effective, you are at a large disadvantage if you don't use it.
So, if you don't like that kind of gameplay, you're crippling your ability to compete.
Not that I really have any interest in competitive games these days, so my opinion on that might not matter. But it certainly annoyed me that most competitive multiplayer games devolve into who can pick the most effective/cheesy path (be it a movement style, weapon/item set, character), and abuse that most effectively, which in turn marginalises or negates a lot of the game's other content.
... I'll admit that I have been known to run diagonally in Thief occasionally, when wanting to travel large distances. Garrett moves really slowly, even when running.
Also, while I'm not the biggest fan of Quake in general, I'd definitely second the custom map scene. Played some of recent maps a while back, and they had some great design.
WingedKagouti on 31/12/2020 at 01:34
Quote Posted by Nameless Voice
Not that I really have any interest in competitive games these days, so my opinion on that might not matter. But it certainly annoyed me that most competitive multiplayer games devolve into who can pick the most effective/cheesy path (be it a movement style, weapon/item set, character), and abuse that most effectively, which in turn marginalises or negates a lot of the game's other content.
If you're competing or training for a competition, it would be folly to not chose the most optimal path to victory.
Different people have different thresholds for when they become competetive. And most people have variable levels of interest in being competetive depending on the actual scenario.
I know that if I were to play Deathmatch in Quake or UT, I'd do whatever I could to perform as well as possible (without cheats/hacks obviously), I'd try to figure out paths, pickup timings, what specific sounds indicate my opponents are doing and so on. But hand me just about any other multiplayer FPS game and you'd have to be very persuasive to get me to try out any kind of competetive mode.
heywood on 31/12/2020 at 15:03
Quote Posted by Qooper
You are correct. In fact the last time you did that was tomorrow. I'll host a Quake server. We're friends now :D
Sorry, I had to work yesterday. And today I'm cleaning house and preparing food because relatives are coming over. Tomorrow when I'm nursing my hang over I'll try to get Q1 installed and up again. I doubt I can host though. I seem to have forgotten the admin password to my firewall/IPS/IDS. Doh! If I can remember that I can whitelist a path to my home server/NAS and host a Quake server on it. If not I'll have to hard reset it and configure it from scratch, which is not something I want to take on near term. :(
Qooper on 1/1/2021 at 00:25
Quote Posted by heywood
If not I'll have to hard reset it and configure it from scratch, which is not something I want to take on near term. :(
Not to worry, I think I can get my router configured, so lemme know when you'd like to play a round or two. I must warn, I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to Quake. But it's about having fun :)
EvaUnit02 on 3/1/2021 at 05:26
Quote Posted by henke
But like lots of these boomer shooters there's not much of a narrative which is kinda turning me off. I didn't think much of DUSK either. Sharpshooter3D is a Russian antifa FPS and just about the most punk thing I've ever played, only available on (
https://headhuntersgames.itch.io/sharpshooter3d) itch. (
https://store.steampowered.com/app/442780/STRAFE_Gold_Edition/) Strafe came out a few years ago and disappointed a lot of people when it was less of a mindless Quake-y thing and more of a roguelite Teleglitch-esque thing. I loved it tho. Prodeus and Amid Evil look cool, haven't played em.
Can I ask what did you go in expecting? Common sense would dictate that modern games trying to emulate games of a particular style and from a particular era would you know, be like the games that they're trying to emulate.
I bought Wrath: Aeon of Fury a few months ago and refunded it swiftly. It's too "90s shooter for its own good" IMO. I got lost in a shitty Hexen-esque hub map. A real shame because the core mechanics I thought were tight and helluva lotta fun.
henke on 3/1/2021 at 07:09
I was expecting em to keep the good parts of 90's shooters and improve on the bad parts. Both DUSK and Ion Fury just dumps you straight into the first levels and then you're running around shooting dudes, for... some... reason? Some kinda narrative to contextualize what's going on would've helped. Without it I got bored fast. And it's not like this stuff hadn't been invented by the 90's. Strife did a good job of worldbuilding and giving you some sense of purpose. I wish these new boomer shooters could've copied that instead of going with Quake and Doom as inspirations for how to tell their story. (that is: don't bother, just put it in the manual somewhere)
Pyrian on 3/1/2021 at 08:16
Well, y'know, we moved on from those games for reasons. That being said, I know a lot of players that just flat out don't like story and skip it as much as possible. ...They're not by-and-large into retro gaming, though.
EvaUnit02 on 3/1/2021 at 13:12
Quote Posted by henke
Without it I got bored fast.
That's a you problem, tough luck. If you see a hole in the market, you could try filling it?
Quote Posted by Pyrian
Well, y'know, we moved on from those games for reasons. That being said, I know a
lot of players that just flat out don't like story and skip it as much as possible. ...They're not by-and-large into retro gaming, though.
Since HL and CoD set the trends they have gone so far in the opposite direction of "boomer shooters", for far too long. There's been such a heavy narrative focus; an over-abundance of cutscenes/scripted sequences; linearity of level design. I can totally see why the audience has pushed so violently against the tired genre trends of the last 20ish years.
"we moved on from those games for reasons." Who're you to make this proclamation? That sentiment is just like the AAA industry abandoning entire genres which they perceived were dead, when in reality they had ravenous audiences. Eg Survival Horror, flight sims, space flight sims, CRPGs, RTSes.
The obvious sentiments are let the free market decides what games we see more of; and if you don't like it, don't buy it.