Doom, Quake, the original Team Fortress, etc. - by Qooper
henke on 29/12/2020 at 16:51
Oh there's been a
pile of 90's-inspired boomer shooters recently. I kinda feel like the Shadow Warrior and DOOM reboots from a few years ago got the ball rolling and the indie scene took it from there.
Ion Fury is made with the Build engine and looks
great. But like lots of these boomer shooters there's not much of a narrative which is kinda turning me off. I didn't think much of DUSK either. Sharpshooter3D is a Russian antifa FPS and just about the most punk thing I've ever played, only available on (
https://headhuntersgames.itch.io/sharpshooter3d) itch. (
https://store.steampowered.com/app/442780/STRAFE_Gold_Edition/) Strafe came out a few years ago and disappointed a lot of people when it was less of a mindless Quake-y thing and more of a roguelite Teleglitch-esque thing. I loved it tho. Prodeus and Amid Evil look cool, haven't played em.
Also of the top of my head: High Hell, Devil Daggers, Post Void, and Bunker Punks are some more games ya might wanna check out. The recent Wolfenstein games are worth mentioning too. Stay away from the Rise of the Triad reboot tho, it stunk.
Honestly there's so many of theses dang boomer shooters I'm starting to get sick of em. I'm almost starting to long for the days of slow-paced cover-based shooters again.
catbarf on 29/12/2020 at 18:18
Quote Posted by Nameless Voice
I'm not saying I don't understand the mechanics of bunny-hopping, I'm saying that I don't understand the
appeal.
The fact that there's a bug that allows you to move incredibly fast by doing something ridiculous doesn't answer the question of why people
like the bug and intentionally add it to other games, instead of wanting it fixed.
For what it's worth, a movement glitch being exploited and then embraced by the community is what turned Tribes from a fairly generic team-based FPS into something unique. The developers then turned it into a core mechanic for the sequels.
There's a niche for competitive games where basic movement involves a degree of skill- Titanfall is a good modern analogue, although that's deliberate rather than a bug.
heywood on 29/12/2020 at 20:48
I'm with NV on this one. I loved playing Quake 1 online in the early days before the movement tricks, clans, rocket arena, etc. And before the cheats became commonplace. Back then, before it became a competitive e-sport, it was just pure fun. After it got big though, I lost interest in playing on public servers. I still played on a LAN with friends or coworkers whenever I had the chance. Playing Q1 CtF and Painkeep on a LAN with friends or coworkers is the most fun I've ever had in gaming. When friends settled in the burbs and weren't into LAN parties anymore, one of us would still host a server occasionally so we could get together online. But the last time we did that was probably 2002?.
After I gave up playing Q1 on public servers, I switched to Q2. It was more balanced, less tricks, less twitch, no cheats. But it was missing some of the raw energy from Q1. Team Fortress was also fun at first, but it quickly got to be too competitive. You really had to dedicate yourself to it.
Qooper on 29/12/2020 at 23:38
Quote Posted by henke
Oh there's been a
pile of 90's-inspired boomer shooters recently.
Thanks henke! I gotta check out all those you mentioned. Devil Daggers looks so fine! More Quake than Quake :cool:
Quote Posted by heywood
When friends settled in the burbs and weren't into LAN parties anymore, one of us would still host a server occasionally so we could get together online. But the last time we did that was probably
2020?
You are correct. In fact the last time you did that was tomorrow. I'll host a Quake server. We're friends now :D
PigLick on 30/12/2020 at 09:43
Yeh I have huge nostalgia for the LAN days, had a group of good mates who would meet up at someones house almost weekly, stuff like q3, UT and BF1942. Good times.
Qooper on 30/12/2020 at 16:25
Any network geniuses here? I've got a TeleWell TW-EAV510 v2 ADSL-router. I need a public IP so I'm trying to set it to bridge my connection. When I do that, I get no IP from my ISP. However, shouldn't I at least get one IP? I can't host a Quake server without a public IP unless I set the router to do some tunneling magicka.
Quote Posted by PigLick
Yeh I have huge nostalgia for the LAN days, had a group of good mates who would meet up at someones house almost weekly, stuff like q3, UT and BF1942. Good times.
Well hey, let's play Quake :) Can you host? I gotta run but I'm available later today if you're up for some deathmatch.
Nameless Voice on 30/12/2020 at 17:29
Bridging is for when you want to connect two routers together in a chain, usually when the first one is a modem-router, and the second is a high-feature "fancy" router.
The first router, in bridging mode, basically acts as a single-device modem, and lets the second device do all the actual routing and control.
You really do not want to expose your PC on the internet directly.
Instead, you need to set up manual port-forwarding for this use case, or use a VPN service like Hamachi, ZeroTier, etc.
Twist on 30/12/2020 at 20:02
Quote Posted by Nameless Voice
I'm not saying I don't understand the mechanics of bunny-hopping, I'm saying that I don't understand the
appeal.
The fact that there's a bug that allows you to move incredibly fast by doing something ridiculous doesn't answer the question of why people
like the bug and intentionally add it to other games, instead of wanting it fixed.
From the nature of your post, I get the impression you don't particularly want someone to explain it to you, but I'll try anyway. :cheeky:
Why do people like it? Because it
feels fantastic; there's a unique and elegant kinetic and mechanical satisfaction to skillfully strafe-jumping.
"Bunny-hopping" is an inaccurate term that misrepresents the specific inputs involved. So set that term aside.
For me, a large part of the appeal is the swish of your mousing hand as you strafe-jump.
Imagine the fluid, rhythmic swishes of a music conductor's baton, with subtle variations made to account for subtle changes in dynamics and rhythm. This fluid, rhythmic swishing is what proper strafe-jumping feels like in your mousing hand, with subtle variations made to the swishing to account for the varying levels of speed required to make it over varying gulfs, hazards and heights.(The critical role of this mousing feel in its movement skill is also why in Quake games -- and only in Quake games -- I have Jump bound to the second mouse button rather than to a key on the keyboard.)
I know it seems janky and odd when you first try to learn how to strafe-jump. I dismissed it at first, too. And yes, even Carmack wasn't crazy about it. But once you accept its comical origins and move beyond the learning curve, it just
feels fantastic. It becomes second nature.
This was a serendipitous bug.
Sometimes when I haven't played any Quake game in a while, I'll load an empty deathmatch map offline just to feel that swift, fluid flow through the geometry.
Unfortunately, it's not easy to learn, which may be why people are so dismissive of it.
Because of the "bunny hopping" term, I suspect many people don't even realize that they haven't really learned it.I'm sure I could explain the mechanics of it to ten experienced gamers, and seven or eight of those experienced gamers (or more) probably couldn't pick it up at first. There's much, much more to it than just jumping over and over.
But whatever. There you go.
I know you can live an entirely happy and fulfilling life without ever discovering the fluid joy of strafe-jumping, but try not to sound outright dismissive of something people enjoy just because you don't understand it.
Tomi on 30/12/2020 at 21:20
You make the bunny hopping sound like a form of art. :p I played Quake back in the day (it was a bit disappointing after Doom and Duke3D) and was blissfully unaware of such thing. My only bunny-hopping experiences are from Thief: The Dark Project, although I'm not even sure if we're talking about the same thing. It felt rather silly, but I just had to do it when I got a chance, so I guess it was fun in a way. :) I think it'd be annoying in a multiplayer game though, seeing everyone bunny-hopping around...
Twist on 30/12/2020 at 22:20
Yeah, I guess any niche skill or niche interest can sound silly when someone within that niche expresses their enthusiasm to someone outside of it. :o I think that's why I punctuated the end of my post with, "But whatever. There you go."
As for "everyone bunny-hopping around" in a multiplayer game, well, I can't speak for all games, but in Quake strafe-jumping is usually employed more precisely. Skilled players aren't jumping constantly. It's a string of jumps here to accelerate down a hall to out-flank an opponent, a couple of jumps there to build just enough acceleration to make it over a wide gulf.
Reading and anticipating your opponent's movements while misdirecting them from being able to read and anticipate your movements is a critical skill, and to pay attention to that stuff you can't always jump around like mad. In Duels (1v1), in particular, the sound of jumping can give away your position or the direction you're heading, so often times you may even avoid jumping.
Also, certain powerful weapons, like the lightning gun, don't lend themselves to jumping, so you never see pro players jumping when attacking with it.
Regardless of strafe-jumping, you should give the Quake custom mapping community a look. They're prolific and incredibly talented. Many currently employed and active AAA developers still release mods and maps for the original Quake. I would guess that even people who weren't crazy about the original Quake might be impressed by much of what the community produces these days.