Sulphur on 19/7/2014 at 19:33
I say good riddance to the abstract levels of oldschool Doom. Even as a kid, I found the lack of relatable design a problem, because for a base supposedly on Mars, the levels looked like they were jammed together with no thought to any actual real-world architectural design, or anything that actually made any sense. And that was true of course, because they'd thrown out Tom Hall's 'boring' design and reworked everything for flow.
I play games, however, at least partly for their ability to immerse me in a space. Doom can be excused due to engine restrictions, and that was the flavour du jour back in the early-mid 90s. Today, however, if an FPS with AAA graphics throws me into spaces that are abstract mazes that are completely at odds with what the setting is supposed to look like, I can only attribute it to poor design, or worse, laziness. With where technology is at today, there's no reason to go back to weird early 90s level-design except for rose-tinted nostalgia.
sNeaksieGarrett on 1/8/2014 at 20:46
I see what you're saying Sulphur but I don't quite agree.
I think there's room for all kinds of games in this industry, and to discount the design because it doesn't match the real world is a bit silly. Games don't always have to be about being realistic and "make sense."
I think Doom 1 and 2 style level design can work today, but I guess it really comes down to the execution and art style. I guess if they're going for 'realistic environments' then it'd feel weird to be in a level that didn't follow expectations for architectural design.
Quote Posted by twhalen2600
I attend Quakecon each year and so saw the Doom reveal. I was very excited to finally see the game, and my reaction is that it looks like some good fun, but it doesn't have me crazy excited.
My kind of a new Doom game would be extremely retro, with keycards, large abstract environments, and perhaps even the gun at the bottom-center of the screen. Maybe even cartoony or cel-shaded graphics. So the actual new Doom is not my dream Doom reboot, but still looks okay.
And there-in lies your problem. You can't honestly expect them to create a game very much like the original Doom or have it match your 'dream.' I think when we expect as such, we will never be able to be "super excited" about a reboot/remake/sequel for a franchise and setting ourselves up for disappointment.
Having said that, I think it's telling that of what I've heard from people who have seen the new Doom footage and are Doom fans, they think it's great. Of course, it still remains to be seen how the final product will turn out. It is probably safe to say that we can be cautiously optimistic about this reboot and that it will fall in line more with the originals than with Doom 3.
Renzatic on 1/8/2014 at 21:21
They could play the happy medium. Realistic environments that have been mashed up and mixed together due to hell influence.
Sulphur on 1/8/2014 at 21:25
Well, if Doom's actually going to be set on earth, I'd expect at the very least a basic sense of verisimilitude to actual environments. If it's a base on some moon, however improbable it might be, it'd still need the hallmarks of human design. Having said that, I'm not denying that abstract design is fun. If people are pining for it, there's avenues for it still in the WADs and mods and whatnot for Quake and Doom and UT.
I don't think a modern-day FPS is the right place for that sort of design, however, unless the game manages to justify that sort of thing. If you have something like Portal which explains the abstractness of the design with its own self-contained logic, and still remains relateable, I'm all for it. Serious Sam does it right, because it concentrates on the purity of the combat for the most part, and Egypt's the perfect location for entire sets of corridors linked to wide open spaces, so there's still some amount of suspension of disbelief that can be held. If a game doesn't do that though... Rise of the Triad 2013? It just rubs me the wrong way. The design is tetchy, the levels are bland abstract urgh-wot, and it doesn't feel very fun at all running around in those spaces.
Renzatic on 1/8/2014 at 21:27
I'm telling you: hell influence. As in here's a realistic cafeteria with an abstract layout because this once perfectly normal building has been twisted in on itself in 4 dimensions due to hell influence.
Sulphur on 1/8/2014 at 21:29
You do know the 4th dimension is time, right
Sulphur on 1/8/2014 at 21:30
So basically, Doom [4] Hypercube edition where you find the level exit by solving quadratic equations
Sulphur on 1/8/2014 at 21:36
And that's about as abstract as anything can get, innit
Renzatic on 1/8/2014 at 22:06
Quote Posted by Sulphur
You do know the 4th dimension is time, right
Depends on what model of reality you subscribe to. The 4th dimension can be spatial, with the 5th dimension being time.
DUUUHHHHH!
twhalen2600 on 2/8/2014 at 00:42
Quote Posted by Sulphur
I don't think a modern-day FPS is the right place for that sort of design, however, unless the game manages to justify that sort of thing....If a game doesn't do that though... Rise of the Triad 2013? It just rubs me the wrong way. The design is tetchy, the levels are bland abstract urgh-wot, and it doesn't feel very fun at all running around in those spaces.
I understand what you're saying. This is why a game designed that way would need cel-shaded graphics or a real cartoony look for it to work for me. The Rise of the Triad remake didn't do it for me, either.
And sNeaksieGarrett, I see what you mean. If I put aside my dream Doom reboot, though, and accept the kind of "modern game design" framework big publishers must work within, the new Doom does look good.
