Dia on 3/8/2007 at 14:24
Quote Posted by Musopticon?
Then it dawned on me how well all the factions would work as secret societies and how, instead of a Splinter Cell copy including indrustial espionage and loopy gadgets, the game could be about well-planned heists and slow descend into the sociopolitical undercurrents of the metropolis.
It would have ended up being a shooter, which would have totally destroyed the whole concept of Thief.
Concept art for T4:
Inline Image:
http://www.digital-nightfall.com/garrettsketchthief4concya0.jpgAs Digi said in another thread:
'Only the artist forgot the big gold and diamond "G" he's supposed to wear around his neck.'
Quote Posted by ToolFan2007
Fan made mods are simply not the same as a quality piece of work from publishers.
Oh I seriously beg to differ with you. There are more than a few FMs that more than a few Thief fans have deemed to be just as good as, if not better than, the original games.
Melan on 5/8/2007 at 07:52
No, really, at this time, I don't want to see another Thief sequel. Let it rest.
But I have to admit that I'd love to play the guy from the concept art in an entirely unrelated franchise. That, or maybe I just want another game built on the basic ideas of Deus Ex! :cheeky:
(I wonder why nobody is working on one... or am I just out of the loop?)
Melan on 5/8/2007 at 07:56
Quote Posted by New Horizon
That's becoming less and less true. Developers simply don't have the time or resources to invest in their games, unless they're particularly well off. Independent fan made mods are gaining ground on production houses that simply can't spare the time anymore.
Will this remain true with advancing technology, though? Sure, the tools you get will be better, but so are expectations. I can crank out architecture in Dromed which looks decentish by Thief2 standards, but could someone without a lot of dedication and expertise hope to create the complex 3d terrain of the most recent engines? As I see it (and this is just an uninformed view), modmaking may not be able to keep up after a while.
june gloom on 5/8/2007 at 09:46
unfortunately thief 2 is a bad game to make your argument with, as there's too many limits, and no source code.
okay take doom.
now add gzdoom.
now add a nearly 15-year community with some VERY long-time members and a very creative (if omglol-ish) collection of mappers.
at some point the creations stop looking like a 1993/4 game and more like a 1996/1997 game.
now imagine what can be done with, say, source for example. now imagine what HAS been done with source.
as engines become more and more powerful, with fewer and fewer limits, it's not inconcievable to imagine that eventually a talented mod team will come up with a mod for a game from two years ago that looks and plays leagues better than a game that's not due for another 6 months.
OrbWeaver on 5/8/2007 at 10:11
Quote Posted by Melan
Will this remain true with advancing technology, though? Sure, the tools you get will be better, but so are expectations. I can crank out architecture in Dromed which looks decentish by Thief2 standards, but could someone without a lot of dedication and expertise hope to create the complex 3d terrain of the most recent engines? As I see it (and this is just an uninformed view), modmaking may not be able to keep up after a while.
I don't believe this is true. As you say, expectations increase but so do the tools used to meet them, and I don't see any reason why the expectations should outstrip the abilities of mod teams to produce content.
To use your terrain example -- yes, modern games have much more detailed terrain than the Dark engine, but on the other hand, the terrain does not need to be manually created with brushes but can make use of third party terrain generation tools or scripts for modelling apps such as Blender, which can produce decent-looking landscapes in a few minutes.
Flexibility is nothing to be feared. After all, the need to meet higher expectations applies just as much to commercial developers as it does to mod teams, and unless the commercial publishers are prepared to spend money on huge teams and an ever-more-costly development process, they
will find ways to reduce the amount of work needed to produce good results.
user1010 on 5/8/2007 at 13:52
Now, I like the thief games as much as anybody out there, but I have to be brutally honest and say that a thief 4 in the future WILL WORK.
Don't believe me? If you want a taste of how it would feel, try out vampire the masquerade - bloodlines and play as a stealthy malkavian. Seriously, it wasn't until I had tried it out myself that I realized that a future garrett (as depicted) would be the only reasonable choice in breathing some new life into the whole genre. Sure, alot would change, but that's the whole point, if they just keep making the same game over and over without trying something new, you'll all get bored with it anyway. heh, just take a look at the megaman games for instance :P
And imagine, you don't need to go all metropolitan either, what dictatates that garrett has to just visit skyscrapers, offices and dock warehouses? why not send the poor sod over to an old rural area in the midwest? or to chernobyl ? (everyone whose ever played stalker knows the creepyness of the old Ch) Think about it, we've got a multitude of places in our present that are every bit as exciting as the places you'd loose out on in the past. However, one thing that needs to be present would be the supernatural factor of the game, magic and technology bound together more tightly than ever.
I mean, you've got steampunk, what about projecting that idea into the future?
As for Garrett, one could have the original voice actor reprise his role, but of course they'd have to either find some plausible way to get garrett into the future (glyph magics) or expand on the character further by making a "new" and inexperienced other garrett. Granted, it would be interesting to play as garrett in the new day and age, and the game could have an introduction where you get to play a level in the "old" setting which leads into the future.
So, as I've tried to show you doubters, a game in a new setting but with expanded opportunities could be glorious, but as we all know.. game makers today rarely tend to go that way...
traveler on 5/8/2007 at 23:05
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
An interesting question.
:cool:
Dia on 6/8/2007 at 02:58
Quote Posted by user1010
And imagine, you don't need to go all metropolitan either, what dictatates that garrett has to just visit skyscrapers, offices and dock warehouses? why not send the poor sod over to an old rural area in the midwest? or to chernobyl ? (everyone whose ever played stalker knows the creepyness of the old Ch) Think about it, we've got a multitude of places in our present that are every bit as exciting as the places you'd loose out on in the past. However, one thing that needs to be present would be the supernatural factor of the game, magic and technology bound together more tightly than ever.
Wow! I hadn't even thought along those lines. Your ideas would work, user. Chernobyl could be 'The Cradle' equivalent; and rather than somewhere in the midwest, the game could be set in rural Europe (face it; the towns & villages there are far older than anything we have over here). It's completely doable imo. I like it!
Quote:
but of course they'd have to either find some plausible way to get garrett into the future (glyph magics) or expand on the character further by making a "new" and inexperienced other garrett. Granted, it would be interesting to play as garrett in the new day and age, and the game could have an introduction where you get to play a level in the "old" setting which leads into the future.
Instead of having the original Garrett transported into the future, you could have a descendant of Garrett pick up where he left off; only in the present (I'd like to think our Garrett was only 'human' and had his share of affairs with the fairer sex ;) - so it would be plausible that he fathered a child or two, right?). The descendant would be kind of like a 'throwback' and of course, it would have something to do with him being Garrett's namesake & finding out about his great-great-(maybe some more greats in there)grandad's history. It'd work for me.
june gloom on 6/8/2007 at 05:16
unfortunately the world of thief doesn't really take place on this earth.
a chernobyl equivalent would be interesting, though.
