froghawk on 9/12/2015 at 16:47
To expand the discussion a bit... as a musician, I think about this issue a lot in regards to music. Here's what I think has happened across every medium:
The mainstream / AAA stuff has all gotten significantly worse. Certainly since the '70s - when was the last time you saw a film like 2001 succeed in the mainstream, or a musician like Frank Zappa?
And here's the reason: development costs have gone up. Games are much more complex pieces of code than they used to be, big budget films involve a lot more CGI than they used to, etc. As a result, big studios & publishers are becoming much more conservative about what they promote, opting only for tried & true formulas and franchises.
Music is a little different - production costs have actually gone down, but so have sales (quite significantly), so we see the same conservatism in marketing efforts.
Now, on the flip side - the indie scene in all three is better than ever. People have the tools to obtain good home studios, camera, editing software, etc. for cheap now. You can make your own game, film or album more cheaply and easily than ever.
The drawback to that: the indie scene is flooded with a ton of redundant, poorly executed crap.
The advantage: a lot of crazy ideas that never would've made it past the gatekeepers in the '90s or earlier are getting the green light.
So, is there really a conclusion to be drawn from all this? I don't think so. It's better in some ways, worse in others. No surprise there.
GMDX Dev on 9/12/2015 at 16:55
Quote Posted by "manwe"
That's your next generation of consoles: a controller.
No, no. It's a PC that you have to pay additional fees to access the internet from, only to be swamped with ads once you do so with no option to disable them. And without all the other many, many benefits of a PC.
As for the mods, I believe I may have misinterpreted what you were saying there. I've played a sizable chunk of the mods you list and indeed they are great...but this was only possible by the developers releasing SDKs in the '90s early '00s, which aside from Bethesda and some other exceptions just doesn't happen any more. More fine examples of modern woes.
Quote Posted by froghawk
To expand the discussion a bit... as a musician, I think about this issue a lot in regards to music. Here's what I think has happened across every medium:
Thank you for personal vindication of my own thoughts. I feel alone and irrational in my disdain of modern music. Music is obviously more subjective than games as games are defined by code (math, logic) more than anything, but I can't fucking stand a lot of new music too. Again, exceptions apply. And yes, movies have gotten worse too.
To add to the music musings: when was the last time anyone in the mainstream above the age of 35 got signed? doesn't happen anymore.
Jason Moyer on 9/12/2015 at 17:00
Froghawk, redlettermedia did an interview with Max Landis recently where they discussed that phenomena as it applies to film, but I think you can take what he says in this video and apply it to books, videogames, comics, music, etc as well:
[video=youtube;DR-Dry8Qb4A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR-Dry8Qb4A[/video]
Manwe on 9/12/2015 at 17:03
Quote Posted by GMDX Dev
799,889 799,889 Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
703,466 803,142 Dota 2
89,223 132,516 Fallout 4
52,329 56,046 Team Fortress 2
41,205 47,065 Warframe
39,669 58,866 Football Manager 2016
35,245 38,899 Grand Theft Auto V
34,171 42,044 ARK: Survival Evolved
30,848 41,672 Sid Meier's Civilization V
28,431 35,448 The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
27,954 32,829 Clicker Heroes
26,540 32,414 Garry's Mod
21,709 25,644 Counter-Strike
19,910 21,092 Unturned
19,523 27,724 Arma 3
18,645 23,311 Rust
18,591 26,599 Call of Duty: Black Ops III
17,927 29,250 Rocket League
16,182 23,532 Football Manager 2015
So what, the masses like shit, big deal. Who cares? The top 50 most successful movies of the year are probably turds as well. Same with music. Do you really think in the 90s people had better taste and played good games only? I seem to recall Looking Glass Studios going under because their games didn't sell.
And it's not like you're forced to play any of those games. If you don't like this year's games, you can play last year's games for a ridiculous price, or the games from the year before that, for an even more ridiculous price. And all these amazing games from the 90s and early 2000s can now be enjoyed for free through emulation, and with updated graphics if that's your thing. Currently I'm playing through Build Engine games and having a blast. I've just finished Duke 3D and Shadow Warrior is next on my list. And when they go down to 5 bucks I'll grab MGS5 and The Witcher 3 and enjoy the shit out of them. What do I care if people want to waste their life grinding in LoL.
Jason Moyer on 9/12/2015 at 17:06
In the 90's you had 98% of people playing Myst, and 2% playing everything else.
Here's my thinking on how I'd segment gaming into ages:
1977-1982: Golden Age
1986-1990: Silver Age
1993-2000: Bronze Age
2010-present: Milk the hell out of that IP age
GMDX Dev on 9/12/2015 at 17:11
"Do you really think in the 90s people had better taste and played good games only?"
In games? To some degree, yes. Top sellers were the games we call classics now. Looking Glass' lack of success was one of few exceptions, and it's a damn shame.
"Shadow Warrior"
Is the bomb despite being more akin to a Duke Nukem 3D TC than it's own true thing.
"And it's not like you're forced to play any of those games."
Like I previously mentioned, I still play a lot of old games, but you have to play at least a notable amount of new to even have the perspective I'm arguing.
froghawk on 9/12/2015 at 17:14
Quote Posted by GMDX Dev
Thank you for personal vindication of my own thoughts. I feel alone and irrational in my disdain of modern music. Music is obviously more subjective than games as games are defined by code (math, logic) more than anything, but I can't fucking stand a lot of new music too. Again, exceptions apply. And yes, movies have gotten worse too.
To add to the music musings: when was the last time anyone in the mainstream above the age of 35 got signed? doesn't happen anymore.
I think there's the same amount of great films and music out there as there's always been - you just have to look a lot harder for it, and there's a lot more crap to wade through. There's a lot more stuff out there in general, which I think leads to the perception that things are worse than they used to. And indeed, most people don't have original ideas, so when more people have access to the tools to make art you end up with a higher percentage of crap than when you had gatekeepers. But I think you also find some cool out-there stuff that can only exist today, and that makes it all worth it.
With that said, the Rock in Opposition movement still found record labels to release their stuff. Jodorowsky and Bunuel still got to release their films. So it's hard to say how many brilliant and out there ideas are really making it out there due to technological access that wouldn't have been released in the past, but at least it removes some financial barriers and makes it so self-made art isn't just for aristocrats and those funded by them, and that's definitely a good thing.
Jason, I will check out that video.
Manwe on 9/12/2015 at 17:16
Quote Posted by GMDX Dev
you have to pay additional fees to access the internet from, only to be swamped with ads once you do so with no option to disable them.
And... guess what they're importing to PCs. I helped my mother setup her new computer through the phone the other day (win10) and she couldn't get Solitaire to work. The computer told her she had to watch a video before she could play, but the video didn't work because she wasn't connected to the internet and so she couldn't access the game... They're turning our systems into one standardized DRM-filled nightmare.
GMDX Dev on 9/12/2015 at 17:21
Just don't blame the consoles nor the audience. The audience shouldn't have to be deeply informed on such matters. It is all down to the insiders that manipulate and take advantage of the susceptibility of young people and their dominant status in culture which is actually heavily influenced by these greedy bastards pushing out trash accompanied by aggressive marketing. Or looking at it simply, it's just a case of one sellout after another that has resulted in a melting pot of shit.
Nameless Voice on 9/12/2015 at 17:47
Quote Posted by Manwe
That's your next generation of consoles: a controller. Fallout 4's UI isn't bad because it's a shitty port of a console game. Its bad because you're playing it wrong.
Fallout 4 is a bad example here. Even people who've played it with controllers say the interface is awful.
