GMDX Dev on 17/12/2015 at 15:52
Quote Posted by Manwe
Like I said I actually agree with you about FP games. That is because the mouse + keyboard combo allows for a very high precision of movement without requiring much skill on the part of the player. And nothing better has been invented since then (except maybe the Valve controller?). That is not the case of tank controls on a D-pad, which is an obsolete control scheme designed for an obsolete piece of tech that was supplanted by the dual stick gamepad (and works as an ersatz of mouse + keyboard)
Also I fired it up to see if it still holds well, and you were right, it mostly does. Graphics/animations are great. Overall presentation is top quality. And the soundtrack does sound good. Even the controls are not as bad as Duke Nukem Time to Kill. That being said, it's still a pain in the ass to play and I just can't be bother with tank controls in this day and age.
I take it you didn't play Tenchu 3 (2003) then. No more tank controls.
Also platforming in general isn't very good with M + K. WASD is 8-directional movement, and of course there's a walk key. Compared to a console stick's near-full 360 degree pressure sensitive movement.
I'm not sure if I could recommend Tenchu 1 today as a result of controls, graphics & bugs, but I wouldn't recommend a lot of modern stealth games either. Of course Thief is one of if not the best stealth game, but I still have a lot of love for Tenchu. It is a shame it died a horrible, typical modern death.
I haven't played the new Metal Gear. Looks interesting, yet it doesn't really look like Metal Gear. Looks quite gameplay-focused though so I may like it.
Tenchu 3 I can wholeheartedly recommend. Gameplay: (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZKwQOn43lg)
Jason Moyer on 17/12/2015 at 17:04
Quote Posted by heywood
I would say that the early 80s saw the rise of video games, but "golden age" normally refers to the peak of a civilization and the time when its greatest works were accomplished.
It doesn't usually work that way with media though, does it? I mean, the golden age of film or comics or radio might be the periods where the best work was done but that's not really part of the definition.
faetal on 17/12/2015 at 17:15
Quote Posted by GMDX Dev
That's how you choose to interpret it.
Fairly certain I'm not alone - the way you reference any game you don't like is worded to taint anyone who likes it. "If you like mindless games that'#s
fiiiiine" etc...
If you can communicate well, you'd leave less room for people to take things in a way you didn't intend - hence my repeated references to your communication technique rather than personality.
Quote:
Pretty sure I did, but never mind.
No, you repeatedly referred to your opinion as facts and even used the phrase "telling it how it is" in a non-ironic fashion.
Re takedowns - I'm pretty sure the topic has been done to death on here before. It seems to be an issue of how much agency you allow the player versus how much is portrayed by the game. For example, in Deus Ex, you don't have to use any directional cues to determine how JC Denton's arm moves when left-clicking - there is just an animation which plays to demonstrate JC swinging the baton from a first-person perspective. While there's a decent argument for the TPP switch being a jolt for the takedowns in HR, it can easily be argued that it's just an amped up and more varied extension of the arm swing. I can't say for sure which I prefer if any, but then I didn't get any significant amount of my enjoyment of either game from the visual representation of my avatar between left-clicking and my target being rendered unconscious, so I guess it just isn't that important to me.
There are all kinds of ways that this argument can take place - take sword-fighting for example. There was a game called Die by the Sword, where you had to control the direction of your sword's swing directly with the mouse. On the plus side, this gave you a greater amount of agency with regards to the
feel of swinging a sword, with the trade-off that it looked kind of janky and absurd. Then you have Severance: Blade of Darkness where you can press either of the 4 directions when left-clicking to produce one of 4 different attack animations with the equipped weapon, plus there were avatar special moves triggered by beat-em-up style key sequences and weapon-specific special moves triggered the same way. This gave a lower amount of direct agency between player and sword, but better immersion when seeing your clicks represented on screen - more like a warrior than a kid on acid chasing a pinata. Then you have Dark Souls, where you just have different move-sets for each weapon - lower agency again than Severance (not by much though), but even better immersion with the skilled warrior screen.
The question when pointed back at Deus Ex is where is the sweet spot of agency versus immersion? Is a highly trained augmented agent performing instant take-downs simply because he's great with a baton and quite strong, or is it because he is a bit handy with the martial arts and quite strong? Personal preference can clearly be stated, but I don't know that I'd take someone saying that one was
better than the other without a compelling argument.
Yakoob on 17/12/2015 at 18:13
Quote Posted by GMDX Dev
Don't be silly. I am indie too, technically. You've all been putting far, far too many words in my mouth...
Quote Posted by GMDX Dev
It is likely you all like the garbage
Quote Posted by GMDX Dev
Half of 'em are indie, others are "non-games", many are movie games more than they are the specified genres, and I bet he struggled with that FP platforming category. This is within a time frame of 9 years and the best he could do was a list full of indie games. It serves to reinforce my point more than anything.
I dont even have to try putting words into your mouth.
Like others, I agree with a good chunk of your points, but you do a terrible job of presenting them.
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
I think it would be interesting to have a discussion about the effect that massive budgets in AAA gaming and the need to recoup large financial investments has had on the product (spoiler: like every other media, it's all about cashing in on IP). I'm not sure this is really the thread to have that discussion in, though.
Perhaps not the best thread, but I agree that's an interesting topic, and I think even more relevant for indies. I know my whole mindset and approach changed as I started thinking of my games as less hobbies and more a career/business, and finances became and important goal.
GMDX Dev on 17/12/2015 at 19:01
I can see how I may have led you to believe I think all indie is garbage, indeed that was an error in communication on my part...now tell me about your indie toilet sim game :cheeky:
TTK12G3 on 17/12/2015 at 22:46
Quote Posted by bangersnmash
Do you think the 90s were the "golden age" of video games?
I remember that for every Doom, Baldur's Gate, Daggerfall and the like, there were piles of awful games that basically just ripped off each other, or were totally uninspired.
No, and I think that this kind of thinking, nostalgia or whatever, generally comes from a growing disinterest in gaming for the individual.
GMDX Dev on 17/12/2015 at 23:33
Inline Image:
http://orig11.deviantart.net/778a/f/2013/210/7/0/comic___games_then_and_now_by_ricardo73-d6frrci.jpgQuote Posted by TTK12G3
No, and I think that this kind of thinking, nostalgia or whatever, generally comes from a growing disinterest in gaming for the individual.
Nothing can entertain me as a game can. I fell in love at a young age and that love is now probably stronger than ever before. As far as I am concerned its a hobby (and perhaps a career) for life.
Yakoob on 18/12/2015 at 01:15
Quote Posted by GMDX Dev
I can see how I may have led you to believe I think all indie is garbage, indeed that was an error in communication on my part...now tell me about your indie toilet sim game :cheeky:
I'm not sure if you're genuine or not but the ellipses and ending makes me think you're being completely sarcastic? If so, then way to dismiss a game before you know anything about it and disregard the 2 other story driven and (in case of Karaski) immersive sim games I made before. GG, nextmap
demagogue on 18/12/2015 at 03:52
I almost respect assfoolery so bad it literally brings deth back from the grave to insult it.
Almost.
Jason Moyer on 18/12/2015 at 04:18
Quote Posted by Yakoob
Perhaps not the best thread, but I agree that's an interesting topic, and I think even more relevant for indies. I know my whole mindset and approach changed as I started thinking of my games as less hobbies and more a career/business, and finances became and important goal.
Well, let's look at this way. In the 70's and 80's people made a lot of money creating the kinds of games that they and everyone else wanted to play. All of those companies are dead and gone. In the 90's there were companies doing the same, and now they're all dead and gone or EA. For as much as everyone hates Bobby Kotick, he basically singlehandedly took a company that had died multiple times and burned through a shitload of cash and executives, and turned it into a successful company.
