Nameless Voice on 16/12/2015 at 18:51

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No, you said that there was no place for those kinds of games. He did what I was too lazy to (thanks for that!) and pointed out how that statement is wrong.

That doesn't mean that those games are good - some are not - but they are still mainstream games in the listed genres.

Edit: Scratch that, most of those games are decent, you specifically picked the three worst you could find.

GMDX Dev on 16/12/2015 at 19:10

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Half of 'em are indie, others are "non-games", many are movie games more than they are the specified genres, and I bet he struggled with that FP platforming category. This is within a time frame of 9 years and the best he could do was a list full of indie games. It serves to reinforce my point more than anything.
As for the majority of those categorized as Immersive Sims...well yes. Usually when I think of Immersive Sims I think of highly complex 25-hour long epics built from Looking Glass design principles akin to Deus Ex. This is a mistake on my part, because indeed Penumbra could be considered an Immersive Sim too. A new term for games like Deus Ex, Ultima Underworld & System Shock 2 is needed to separate them from the Amnesias, the Gone Homes and such.




Uh, what? What kind of a response is this? Where did I imply I didn't think he likes them? It is likely you all like the garbage, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Malf on 16/12/2015 at 19:23

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Personally, I played Bioshock, a bit of the new Thief, and Bioshock Infinite, but not the DLC.
I didn't really like any of them, although the original Bioshock is the best of that bunch, and even there is handily beaten in to inferiority by the best game in the series, the under-appreciated Bioshock 2.
But just because I didn't like them, it doesn't mean no-one else can enjoy them. Unlike you, I recognise that my opinion isn't objective.

eastgate2 on 16/12/2015 at 20:11

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I don't want to sound like slashdotter but I really need badly now some sort of device to transfer that memory of that smell from your brain to mine. Because I strongly think that I know what you mean by that smell but somehow I couldn't remember it, normally such mentions would trigger such memories for me but not this time, yeah they fucking smelled very distinctively.

Just like the plastic keys on zx spectrum 48k had a strange taste, yeah I did bite them once or twice.

Manwe on 16/12/2015 at 22:22

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I think I mentioned something like that in the first page of this thread, we've gone full circle. GMDX, I think you'd find most people would agree with you on a lot of the points you're trying to make if you weren't so extreme and dismissive in your behavior (again I think that's been mentioned before).

I think we can all agree that some genres peaked in the 90s and have been in decline since then. I think we can also agree that some other genres have almost completely vanished. Just like some mechanics have gone out of fashion, along with certain design philosophies.

I mostly agree with you on the death of First Person platforming (even though I don't think anyone truly understands what you are talking about). I liked being in full control of my character, instead of having contextual one-button-does-all actions. But in some cases (especially third person games), I think it's actually a good thing. For example in a stealth game, not having to think about carefully landing precisely where your enemy is and pressing the attack button at the exact moment you land on him (Tenchu), actually frees your brain (and your fingers) to focus on what's really important, namely the strategic approach to stealth.

While I do agree that some games go too far in the other direction, to the point that they pretty much play themselves (Assassin's Creed), others actually benefit from this streamlining. I already mentioned it, but Splinter Cell Blacklist is a good example of this. Tenchu wasn't supposed to be a platformer. That wasn't the point of the game. Yet, that's what you spent most of your time doing. It was a hindrance to the core gameplay, and simply a consequence of the tech of the time. Mainly the hardware: this was a time when the twin stick gamepad hadn't been invented yet (unless you think that's a terrible invention that led to the further dumbing down of gaming?). That you like this type of gameplay is fine, you're allowed to. But then I'd say you liked Tenchu for the wrong reasons. The fact that the series descended into forgettable shovelware, and died a slow painful death, should maybe give you a hint.

If you want 3D platforming, look towards the 3D platforming genre. I'm willing to bet that's the next genre to make a huge comeback in the coming years. Just like all genres that were previously thought dead have made a huge come back.

The point & click/adventure genre was declared dead around the beginning of the 2000s. We've never had as many adventure games as today (please don't make me list them). Everyone thought slow-paced, top-down, turn-based RPGs had gone out of fashion. We've had more of those last year alone than in the ten years before that. Same thing for the space sim genre. Until 5 years ago, side scrolling platformers were all but extinct. Now we're flooded with them. JRPGs? That genre was literally non-existant on PC just 2 years ago.

As for the immersive sim genre, it's never been a very prolific genre to begin with, but now they're pretty much everywhere. They might not be very good, or to your liking, but they're there. And really Dishonored alone is worth ten of those. Surely you didn't miss the fact that it was commercially successful and that a sequel was incoming? Surely you didn't miss the Underworld Ascendant kickstarter and the announcement for System Shock 3? Surely those are things to get excited about?

In conclusion: Yes, the AAA industry is mostly crap. Yes, games have been streamlined and dumbed-down, oftentimes to ridiculous extent. But some of that streamlining is sometimes for the better. You'd realize that if you let go of your preconceptions and actually tried to look at these games in a truly objective manner. I already said it, but I used to be like you, thinking that all modern gaming was shit. Because of that I missed on a lot of great games and experiences. It's not an objective point of view, it's a very obstinate and stubborn one. You remind me of Rorschach in Watchmen, not wanting to compromise even in the face of Armageddon. Well it's not fucking Armageddon, it's just gaming for fuck's sake.