Jason Moyer on 13/12/2015 at 04:35
Oh hey, a great quote about art that I totally forgot was specifically relevant to a videogame:
“Q: Do you feel concerned that after all this work, people won't treat [Starship Titanic] with the gravity of, say, a movie or a book? That they won't treat it as an art form?
D.A.: I hope that's the case, yes. I get very worried about this idea of art. Having been an English literary graduate, I've been trying to avoid the idea of doing art ever since. I think the idea of art kills creativity. ... f somebody wants to come along and say, "Oh, it's art," that's as may be. I don't really mind that much. But I think that's for other people to decide after the fact. It isn't what you should be aiming to do. There's nothing worse than sitting down to write a novel and saying, "Well, okay, I'm going to do something of high artistic worth." ... I think you get most of the most interesting work done in fields where people don't think they're doing art, but merely practicing a craft, and working as good craftsmen. ... I tend to get very suspicious of anything that thinks it's art while it's being created.”
― Douglas Adams
Starker on 13/12/2015 at 04:45
Quote Posted by GMDX Dev
Absolutely. Duke Nukem 3D, Half-Life, Deus Ex, Thief and loads of other classics are remembered very fondly in part due to their platforming and verticality.
Hmm... I thought the platforming sections in System Shock 2 and Half-Life were the most hated parts of those games.
GMDX Dev on 13/12/2015 at 05:07
I'm having the same conversations here as I am elsewhere now...Half-Life is a platformer through and through. If you like Half-Life, you like platforming because there's an absolute shitload of it from start to finish. As soon as the gameplay begins (post-alien dimensional rift) the game has you jumping over lasers, up along vent shafts and the like, and it persists throughout the whole game without ever relenting.
Whiners gonna whine is all I can really say.
EvaUnit02 on 13/12/2015 at 05:09
Quote Posted by GMDX Dev
Either the '90s & early-mid 2000s was our golden age, or now is. Earlier timelines if you insist but I'd like to hear an argument for it. The rulebooks modern games follow is that of mindless gameplay and a lack of innovation & variety, as well as striving to be interactive movies more than games and the results are laughable. Today is far from notable except in multiplayer and non-games.
Hell the 90s was Looking Glass' period of activity, design far ahead of the curve and we've had nothing to rival them since Arx (maybe New Vegas as one exception), and a website dedicated in it's honor claims today's shit is superior...that's interesting.
There never was a gaming golden age, but today has more potential for BECOMING one than the 1990s ever did. The 7th hardware generation rendering consoles as the top the game development food chain has been fucking great since it killed the PC hardware arms race dead. Developers finally had to time to breathe and get on with making fucking games. (A lot of them are doing just that, we just need to look at thriving indie scene on PC. Of course the bloated whale that is the AAA industry being too scared to take risks will prevent a golden age from happening any time soon.)
Look at Half-Life 2, so much of it is a glorified engine demo. "Oh look, here's another physics seesaw puzzle!". HL2 had many issues like awfully paced game chapters (Eg Route Kanal and Water Hazard. "I have to get out my vehicle with crap handling again to deal with another physics puzzle!") ; unskippable cutscenes which go on forever (i.e. having to sit around whilst these NPCs vomit exposition at each other in this glorified cutscene that's a part of regular gameplay. Just because I can walk-around and pick up shit doesn't mean I'm not watching a cutscene!). Valve however stopped chasing the technology train and started focusing on making better games. Eg they started intense playtesting. You just need to look at HL2 Ep.2, the L4D series and the Portal series, they're much better games than HL2.
Going back to the 1990s, it was also the heyday of Graphical Adventure games - virtually an entire genre that is a haven of crap game design. Eg pixel hunts, moon-logic puzzles, limited solutions to puzzles. Who is to blame? Technology is definitely one culprit. Having to work with the technological restraints imposed by the onset of graphics in Adventure games limited the imaginations of game designers.
(Interactive Fiction is really the best form of Adventure games that there ever was. In that space a good game designer's/writer's imagination is virtually the only ceiling.)
GMDX Dev on 13/12/2015 at 05:22
Not much a fan of point and click adventure games nor HL2, which is indeed a bit too much of a tech demo. I do have fond memories of Broken Sword but I wouldn't play it today.
To determine how golden that age truly was you've also got to look at consoles and handhelds too. And I know that relevant part of your sig under your name is satirical so I doubt you can.
Quote:
The 7th hardware generation rendering consoles as the top the game development food chain has been fucking great since it killed the PC hardware arms race dead.
Irrelevant if the games being made are compromised shit, and it is likely they will continue to be just that for a long long time.
EvaUnit02 on 13/12/2015 at 06:04
For my own personal use, I think that consoles are largely shit. If I can avoid owning one then I will.
The entire gaming hobby benefits from their existence however, as far as consumers are concerned. The 7th hardware generation lasting for almost decade meant that our gaming PCs stayed capable for an aeon. (eg I got so much mileage out my mid-range 2008 Intel dual core and 4GB RAM. I only had to get something better when this current 8th console gen started.)
History has pretty much repeated itself. PS4 and XB1 being based on outdated hardware specifications has been fantastic. Even mid-range 2011 quad core PCs are still relevant, all they need is 8GB RAM minimum plus a Maxwell chipset Geforce minimum and then you can play pretty much every game on the market today.
I don't foresee consoles being made with cutting edge hardware ever again. PS4 wouldn't have sold 30 million units in just 2 years if it hadn't have launched with such a reasonable price tag. The consumer will continue to win. Thank you cut throat competition from hardware vendors!
EDIT:- Consoles also keep AMD in business, since they supply the guts of all consoles. AMD still existing keeps Intel and Nvidia prices competitive.
GMDX Dev on 13/12/2015 at 06:08
Quote Posted by EvaUnit02
For my own personal use, I think that consoles are largely shit. If I can avoid owning one then I will.
Today's consoles most certainly. Consoles of yore had plenty to separate them from the PC gaming experience, especially in the games themselves. Today's consoles as mentioned earlier in the thread have no real notable use in comparison to a PC. they are just corporation-bound, extremely restrictive PCs. Only thing I can think of is a lack of DRM and the relative portability of the hardware.
I'm sorry to say that you missed out on the other side of the golden age due to what I can only assume is your principles.
EvaUnit02 on 13/12/2015 at 06:35
Quote Posted by GMDX Dev
I'm sorry to say that you missed out on the other side of the golden age due to what I can only assume is your principles.
Hmmm? I own all of the (relevant) 5th, 6th and 7th gen consoles and I have hundreds of games for said consoles. I played the breadth of the 4-bit, 8-bit and 16-bit console eras through emulation (which is usually better than the genuine thing because of things like save states and rom hacks).
I only missed out on the arcade golden age. Arcades are shit anyway, nothing but money vampires. (I never really bothered to get into MAME, given how shallow arcade games tended to be.)
Starker on 13/12/2015 at 06:43
Quote Posted by GMDX Dev
If you like Half-Life, you like platforming because there's an absolute shitload of it from start to finish.
By that logic, if you like SS2, then you must like respawning enemies and weapon degradation, because there's a shitload of it from start to finish. Or if you like Morrowind, you must like cliff racers.
Quote Posted by GMDX Dev
Whiners gonna whine is all I can really say.
Yeah, I think we got that loud and clear. That's your attitude throughout the thread in a nutshell. Anyone not liking a feature of a game is just a whiner and you're the enlightened gamer that knows better.
icemann on 13/12/2015 at 07:38
Quote Posted by GMDX Dev
Today's consoles most certainly. Consoles of yore had plenty to separate them from the PC gaming experience, especially in the games themselves.
On this I completely agree. Games on the SNES and Mega Drive and later the PS1, Saturn/Dreamcast and N64 were in a COMPLETELY different realm in the kinds of games available.
In those days I was definitely split between my snes and my PC. Soooooooo many great games :).
Nowadays their all so similar, I don't see the point at all in having a console.
