Starker on 3/6/2017 at 19:56
Tourism mode? Hmm... intriguing. Yeah, I can see that. Like in System Shock where you turn off combat.
Gryzemuis on 3/6/2017 at 22:08
I wanted to play Dark Souls because of the world, the environment, the architecture, the loneliness, the dark colors, the brown colors, the weird conversations with NPCs. When I saw the movies on YouTube, it looked awesome.
But when I read about it, everybody on the net said: "it's hard, it's frustrating, it's unfair, it's hell". I didn't want to play that. I'm a decent gamer, but not much above average. On top of that people said the controls on PC are terrible, you must use a gamepad. And DS1 was a terrible PC-port. All that didn't make the game attractive. I don't give a rat's ass about challenge, difficulty, achievement, reward. So the first few years I just didn't play. Only when DS1 was on sale at Steam of a few euros, I bought it. And then it still took me 6 months or more to actually play it. And it took me quite a while to get through the first 2 levels. Only when I found the Halberd, got to Andre and upgraded my weapons, then I started to get the hang of the game.
And that was because I was stubborn. I really wanted to play this game, even if it did so many things wrong. I don't think there are many gamers who would do that for a new game. The Soulsborn games are missing lots of potential players because of that.
And again, read what I wrote. I wouldn't want quest-markers. I wouldn't want a bigger HUD. But some stuff it just too obscure, and requires you to read a wiki-page. I'm in the middle of my 4th play-through (main character is now in NG++, and I did a second character). And this is the first time I've been able to send Greirat to Irithyll and have him come back alive. It's that hard to do the quests in the right order, at the right speed. I don't want detailed quest-instructions in the game. But it would be nice if you have more flexibility in dealing with NPCs. And that the quests wouldn't fail at the slightest deviation from the path that From picked for you to walk.
And what I've said before: this game has mechanics that make the game harder when you fail, and easier when you succeed. In other games, if you fail 10 times, and then succeed, you have the same chances as a player that succeeded the first time. I think that is wrong. It's not fun for anybody, except for players that already know the game or are good at it.
I'll give a comparison about another game.
In 2000 Unreal Tournament was a huge success as one of the first online shooters. Servers were packed. Capture-The-Flag was the most popular game-type. On those servers there was always a mix of experienced players and new players. The new players would mess-around a bit, try to defend, and would not dare to enter the enemy base often. They could (and would) use so-called "splash-weapons". The rocket-launcher, the flak-cannon. When they got a bit better, they would use the ASMD and do shock-combos. Maybe use the goo-gun. Kinda lame, but they had fun. And with a lot of spamming, and some lucky shots, they could kill a good player once in a while.
The experienced players (especially the deathmatch players) didn't like that. They found it humiliating if a noob would kill them. Even with splash-damage. So when Epic made UT2003, UT2004 and later versions, they convinced Epic to make the game "more skill-based". As a result, the splash-weapons would do less damage, be slower, have less range. They would be a lot less effective to kill people. And the movement was made even faster. UT had dodging, which was awesome. The newer UT versions had dodging twices as far. They had double-dodging, wall-dodging, double-jumping, etc. Basically the good players could move around like lightning. And the new players had 0 chance to ever kill a better player. Exactly like the veterans wanted.
Result: the newer versions of UT never became popular. And relatively soon after each release, the new game would be dead. Only hardcore veterans would play. And that was a small group, which only got smaller. And no influx of new players who would become better. Epic just never understood what the appeal of UT was to all of us noob players. UT99 was a lucky fluke, I think.
Dark Souls if of course different. But I think that if From had changed some mechanics so that the game would be less frustrating and less unfair to new players, they could have had double the success.
242 on 4/6/2017 at 10:26
Quote Posted by Buccura
But I am curious where that information comes from.
From trophy stats in PSN. Sometimes trophies for completed hardest mode show only 1% or less. I was surprised too.
Sulphur on 4/6/2017 at 10:34
That's not really any kind of acceptable statistical analysis. A relative absence of trophies for completing games on the hardest difficulty does not mean it's proof that they're all playing on easy. The majority of people would go with normal as that's the default option unless you change it.
242 on 4/6/2017 at 10:54
Quote Posted by Sulphur
The majority of people would go with normal as that's the default option unless you change it.
This statement also isn't based on an acceptable statistical analysis, is it? I need to check trophy stats for normal vs easy. Anyway, by easy modes I meant difficulties below hardest.
Sulphur on 4/6/2017 at 11:03
Well, it's not a statistical claim like yours, so why would it have to be? I'm using common sense as a starting point.
Anyway, I doubt you'll find an equal (or statistically significant) number of games with trophies that differentiate completing a game on Easy vs. Normal, and your definition of difficulty modes is... at odds with accepted definitions, so the point is moot.
TannisRoot on 5/6/2017 at 12:43
I'm sorry that some of you had such a hard time w/ the Souls games. There are definitely ways to make the Souls games easier your first time through.
The biggest noob trap is poor stat distribution. Get your minimum requirements for your chosen gear and focus on HP. HP is by far the most important stat in the game for a new player. It maximizes the number of mistakes you are allowed, which is vitally important for learning bosses and areas. The second-most important stat is stamina.
Use a longsword. It has cheap requirements and the best move set in the game. Upgrade at every opportunity.
Get a shield with 100% resistance against physical damage asap. Also the higher the stability stat of the shield, the less stamina you'll lose when you block. This will allow you to turtle most enemies.
You can dodge through attacks because dodging makes you immune to damage for several ms during a dodge. This was a game changer for me when I finally understood this and made the game much easier. In Bloodborne, this strategy must be mastered.
In Dark Souls 1, upgrade your armor. This isn't required for any other games in the series, but makes a huge difference in DS1. I neglected to do this my first few characters and it made my life much harder.
Faith has excellent low requirement spells. Having extra healing is extremely useful for starting players.
When faced with a group, pull them one by one with a ranged spell or weapon.
Not every enemy has to be fought. You can run away from any trash mob in the game.
Use rings that upgrade your HP / stamina regeneration / estus flask recovery.
If you run out of summoning consumables, you can farm them by helping other players beat the area boss.
Following these steps and summoning a friend for tough fights, anyone can beat Dark Souls.
Briareos H on 5/6/2017 at 13:03
I'm not sure I understand the issue: the developer needs to stick to their goals and identify what their target audience is, and that's all.
Not everyone has to play and enjoy Dark Souls, in fact it's great that some games are still made like this and not for everyone. It shows a real vision by a developer which is not fixated on sales across all gamer ranges.
If the developer wants to add an easy mode, and then create a wholly different experience for other player types, then it's their decision. Maybe this decision comes from pressure by the marketing departement, in which case, yes the game is ruined because its vision is compromised. Maybe it comes from an increase in scope of the original vision. Who can really generalize?
And I don't understand the problem from the player perspective (who, if it wasn't clear, doesn't have a say in how things should be done in my opinion). There is absolutely no reason for me to care if a game adds a baby mode if I enjoy it playing on hard, unless I choose the baby mode by default. And even then, if I enjoy myself then what's wrong?
Really, I can only see the problem in terms of "would the dev be compromising their vision or not?", and that's not really for us players to tell.
WingedKagouti on 5/6/2017 at 17:21
Quote Posted by TannisRoot
Following these steps and summoning a friend for tough fights, anyone can beat Dark Souls.
Most of that is stuff the developers (and community) expect new players to spend a lot of time learning through trial & error and/or reading guides. The game itself never bothers to do anything to help players adapt to the gameplay.
TannisRoot on 5/6/2017 at 22:55
Quote Posted by WingedKagouti
Most of that is stuff the developers (and community) expect new players to spend a lot of time learning through trial & error and/or reading guides. The game itself never bothers to do anything to help players adapt to the gameplay.
Why not play Zelda then?
