Thirith on 4/11/2016 at 07:12
I'm with Brethren and Renzatic. It's not particularly rational, but sometimes I enjoy getting caught up in the excitement, and the irrationality is part of that. Take Red Dead Redemption 2: I greatly enjoyed pretty much every single Rockstar game I've played (there were always elements I disliked, but they were more than outweighed by what I loved, e.g. the game worlds themselves). I know I'll get more and more excited as more information comes out, and in such a case I feel that the trade-off between rational elements why I can expect I'll greatly enjoy this game too (track record of the company, information coming out before, the genre and style) and the irrational, the rush of exhilaration that is reduced when I switch to a more rational, mature approach according to which preordering is at best no better than buying the game when it's out and at worst fosters unhealthy business practices (such as preorder exclusives) is something I'll accept. There are situations when I end up enjoying something more *because* I don't think about it in purely rational terms.
Sulphur on 4/11/2016 at 07:18
There's nothing wrong with that, Thirith. God knows, all of us are human and feel the same way to an extent with things we really like, irrational or not.
The thing is, if you have a slice of a demographic that does this regularly, it sends a message to publishers and developers, and it's not a nice one. If an appreciable portion of a customer base lets that exhilaration sway them, the accounting department at a publisher's going to prick their ears up and realise this is an easy way to get money ahead of the curve, and they will try to maximise this through conventional and unconventional means. What Bethesda's done with the pre-review theatrics shows them getting increasingly obnoxious in an effort to go after the bottom line, and where do we as customers draw that line and say, 'You know, you really can't take a customer base for granted like that?'
Thirith on 4/11/2016 at 07:37
I absolutely agree with you on everything you've just said, Sulphur. Are my 1-2 preorders per year part of the problem or are they negligible? I don't know, but I know I do not share the preorder absolutism shown by some people here and by RPS because I would miss the element of giddiness, although I agree that they're more rational about the whole thing.
Jason Moyer on 4/11/2016 at 08:11
I think there's a difference between pre-ordering a couple games every year (having not picked up DH2/Tyranny yet, I think I've done it twice this year so far) and pre-ordering basically anything that's hyped to hell because the marketing materials were swanky.
Malf on 4/11/2016 at 08:21
I've been excited enough to pre-order in the past, although I'm less and less likely to do so these days. Mortgages tend to laser-focus your attention to expenditures.
One thing I don't like however are pre-order incentives. Cut that shit out. I want to be getting the same game whether I pre-order or wait. If something DOES do that, reviews well and has good word of mouth, it doesn't matter. I'm more likely to wait until there's a definitive edition and that definitive edition's on sale or even worse for the publisher, available for a massively discounted price through one of those sites who sell keys. Fuck going through official channels if a publisher has so little respect for me they're going to treat me like a cash cow to be milked.
Thirith on 4/11/2016 at 08:23
What are people's thoughts with respect to crowdfunding as preorders? From what I've read in comment threads on gaming sites, it seems that lots of people see crowdfunding pledges are preorders, but I never see it like that. For me, crowdfunding is much closer to patronage; someone credibly sells me on an idea, so I support them financially. Obviously I hope they'll succeed, but even if they don't, it's worth the idea being given a chance. (For the record, most of the things I've contributed to on Kickstarter have succeeded, and I've enjoyed some of the results a lot, from Wasteland 2 to Anomalisa; those things that didn't work out, such as Tangiers, I still think it was worth giving them the chance.)
Malf on 4/11/2016 at 08:59
I have some trouble reconciling the two, and I must admit, I do still crowd-fund the odd thing. Nowhere near as much as I used to.
I see your point about patronage Thirith, but I suspect it's a pretty lie we tell ourselves. In the end, the concepts of pre-ordering and crowd-funding are pretty much identical.
I do like the increased development transparency of the crowd-funding projects I've backed; I may not read every update, but when I do read them, they're generally filled with interesting insights.
Where crowd-funding does differ from pre-ordering I find, is in the revival of genres sidelined by the mainstream in favour of more homogenised accessibility. Or in projects that have a degree of originality that the traditional industry is less likely to take a risk on. I become the person willing to take that risk, and sometimes it pays off.
And to be fair, there are only two crowd-funding projects I've backed that I've regretted: Godus and Shroud of the Avatar. Even then, with Shroud of the Avatar I'm willing to cut it some slack as it's not been released yet. Really haven't liked the way they've been selling in-game advantages prior to release though. It's been even seedier than Star Citizen's ship selling.
henke on 4/11/2016 at 09:02
Quote Posted by Thirith
it seems that lots of people see crowdfunding pledges are preorders, but I never see it like that. For me, crowdfunding is much closer to patronage; someone credibly sells me on an idea, so I support them financially.
Really? Would you back something even if you didn't get a copy of it when it's done?
Because it's certainly both of those things for me.
It's gonna have to fill these 3 criteria:
-It looks like a great concept that I feel needs to get made, and also has a tech demo or believable-enough video material to make me feel confident in the developer's ability to deliver.
-It looks like it might have trouble hitting it's funding target, so my backing it will actually count. (if it's doing well enough to easily get funded without me, I'll wait for release and reviews before buying)
-I get a copy of the finished product.
Vivian on 4/11/2016 at 10:33
Quote Posted by Brethren
That is such crap. You're telling me every time you go to or rent a movie, buy a CD, buy a book, anything like that, you ALWAYS read reviews and opinions first? I call BS. There's got to be something you buy based on reputation.
Yeah man, reputation, exactly. If no-one has played it, there is no reputation, really. There is the impression you've got from marketing, and something like dishonored is deffo being fairly carefully marketed. And the difference between pre-ordering and buying after release is exactly what sulphur said, you aren't putting money into the pre-order pot, you aren't encouraging the devs to maximise pre-order sales, wasting time, money and effort that should have gone into the game itself on developing pre-order incentive dlc's, etc.
Buy a CD????? fucking hell mate it's not the 90's..
Thirith on 4/11/2016 at 10:34
Obviously I'd want the finished product when it comes out - but I don't feel cheated if the project falls apart, unless the information I receive leads me to expect that this was not done in good faith. E.g. the guy who was working on Tangiers hasn't given up yet, as far as I know, but everything sounds like chances are slim it'll ever be finished, but I have no reason to think that he didn't give it his best. The reasons why I pledged to the project were valid, and the project falling through is something that happens. I'm sad for the game and for the guy, but I've spent more money on games that came out that in hindsight I wish I hadn't spent any money on.
Edit: I might feel differently about this if 'my' success rate was lower, but I've crowdfunded a lot of projects, and out of those only a very small number fell through in spite of being funded.
