hopper on 28/1/2010 at 12:53
Quote Posted by N'Al
I really don't see what's stopping this family from emigrating to the US in the normal fashion
Their children are probably too young to conquer the currents of the Rio Grande.
SD on 28/1/2010 at 14:13
Quote Posted by hopper
Which (and I shit you not) you are free to opt out of - just leave the church.
Church tax isn't something that someone should have to opt out of. And it's not something that a democratic government should be getting involved with
at all. I'd say that on balance, it's probably the single worst thing about Germany, maybe second only to the horribly degenerate porn that Germans seem to love so much.
German church taxes raise £5bn for the Catholic church alone every year. Reason enough to scrap it I think.
Quote Posted by N'Al
Also, SD invoking Godwin on p. 1 - ha ha, TTLG delivers yet again! :thumb:
FYI: Godwin's law is when you compare someone to the Nazis, not when you merely mention the Nazis in passing.
Kolya on 28/1/2010 at 14:20
Sigh.
Church tax isn't an opt-out thing. I've never been in any church and hence never had to pay the tax.
So if you can't even get your facts straight about the "single worst thing about Germany" you don't want me to get started on the "video game censoring" and OMG! YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DENY THE HOLOCAUST! WHAT A TERRIBLE INFRINGEMENT ON FREE SPEECH IN THE COUNTRY THAT MADE THE HOLOCAUST HAPPEN OF ALL THINGS!
Seriously, you don't want me to. Because it will only get more embarrassing for you from here on.
hopper on 28/1/2010 at 14:34
Quote Posted by SD
Church tax isn't something that someone should have to opt out of. And it's not something that a democratic government should be getting involved with
at all.
Say hi to your Queen for me, and try to opt out of paying for her rather posh lifestyle. Then come back and teach me about backwardness.
And any mention of Germany at all by you invokes Godwin by default.
demagogue on 28/1/2010 at 14:55
Quote Posted by N'Al
I really don't see what's stopping this family from emigrating to the US in the normal fashion (just like thousands of other German families do every year!), instead of this asylum malarky for which they, imo, have no real basis.
Who says they didn't come to the US in the normal fashion just like thousands of other German families do every year? I didn't explain the part in my last post that my friend also checked the "asylum" box for residency, from Japan, because she hadn't lived there in 2 years so it's a hardship to go back or something. Of course it's totally bunk 90% of the time, like a boring administrative formalism. Welcome to immigration law. But getting US residency is tough business, and just being a normal German family usually isn't good enough... You usually need some other hook, the stronger the better. So immigration lawyers pull out any stop they can, like telling my friend to check "asylum" from Japan as a formality. This looks just like that kind of case.
Then there's this business that the legal group that funded their case has a political agenda. Ok, That you might complain about. But I wouldn't hold that against the family. They wanted to live in the US and, surprise! shock! horror!, went to an immigration lawyer that told them a procedural way in US immigration law to do it. I didn't get the feeling they they really cared what box was checked or wanted to make a big splash out of it, but just do what they wanted to do. But then this law group made a political thing out of it. Then it's this article and you guys that are taking the bait and turning it into a "malarky". IMO, this is (or should be) all pretty dull administrative stuff about what kinds of tracks you want towards residency, and how they work in practice.
N'Al on 28/1/2010 at 15:02
Quote Posted by SD
FYI: Godwin's law is when you compare someone to the Nazis, not when you merely mention the Nazis in passing.
Meh, just think outside the box a bit, and I'm pretty sure you can apply Godwin's Law to what you're doing too. ;)
Quote Posted by demagogue
my friend also checked the "asylum" box for residency, from Japan, because she hadn't lived there in 2 years so it's a hardship to go back or something.
Did she have her request for asylum granted, though? Cause that (in the case of this German family) seems to me to imply that they did it more deliberately, and not just as mere administrative formalism.
ZergMasterBaiter on 28/1/2010 at 15:04
Thank God I live in Canada. All the religious fundamentalist nuts are moving into USA these days :devil:.
Lytha on 28/1/2010 at 15:20
Quote Posted by Kolya
Out of interest: Where would you go?
Not the US, not any state with Islam as primary religious ideology, not Israel, wary of anything in Africa, not China or North Korea... rest would probably be alright.
If Antarctica didn't have all that ice, that might be nice as well. Well, in a few years that problem with the ice ought to be solved. :P
SD on 28/1/2010 at 15:39
Quote Posted by Kolya
Church tax isn't an opt-out thing. I've never been in any church and hence never had to pay the tax.
Clearly it only applies to people who are baptised into a church, since you're only allowed to be baptised if your family pays the tax. So it only applies to most people in Germany, then. But that's okay - Kolya doesn't have to pay it, so it's not an infringement on anyone's freedoms :rolleyes:
For the large majority to whom church tax applies, it very much
is an opt-out thing. This requires you to fill in a form and, in most regions, pay a fee of up to 60 euros in order to officially leave the church that you never consciously joined in the first place. So much for freedom of religion.
Additionally, by opting out you forfeit the right to a church burial, to have your children baptised and to be married in a church. Nice to know there's no bitterness from the establishment to those who opt out!
Quote Posted by Kolya
So if you can't even get your facts straight about the "single worst thing about Germany" you don't want me to get started on the "video game censoring" and OMG! YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DENY THE HOLOCAUST! WHAT A TERRIBLE INFRINGEMENT ON FREE SPEECH IN THE COUNTRY THAT MADE THE HOLOCAUST HAPPEN OF ALL THINGS!
My facts are pretty straight, thanks, and even if they weren't, that doesn't change the fact that censoring fairly innocuous video games and banning Holocaust denial are grave infringements on freedom of speech that have no place in a supposed liberal democracy.
Quote Posted by hopper
Say hi to your Queen for me, and try to opt out of paying for her rather posh lifestyle. Then come back and teach me about backwardness.
To my knowledge there isn't a single jurisdiction anywhere that permits a person to opt out of paying for their head of state, nor is there any place on the planet where the head of state doesn't enjoy a lifestyle that is significantly more comfortable than that of the majority of citizens.
Come back when you have a salient point.
Quote Posted by hopper
And any mention of Germany at all by you invokes Godwin by default.
Ah, just fuck off.
hopper on 28/1/2010 at 15:49
Quote Posted by SD
Come back when you have a salient point.
Come back when you have basic comprehension skills.
