terrannova on 12/12/2003 at 20:14

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Good Day.. This will be a long thread as I post about some changes in Invisible War from the world of Deus Ex that we all knew and loved.

As most of you know, the unified ammo is not because of lazy programmers (although some will not agree) it is because this is the future. Nanites (tiny robotic machines the size of air particles) are in many places, and as a result they create a unified ammo for any gun on the planet. This as implemented somewhere between the course of the 2050's to 2070's range. Probably implemented by the W.T.O. and the beginning part of the JC Denton/Helios merger.

UNATCO HQ - Why is the architecture of UNATCO HQ so different? The once clear floors are now ugly and non-reflective, the sizes of doors and wall areas are bigger and seem more like "duplo" LEGO blocks as opposed to "lego system" LEGO blocks. And this is still the UNREAL engine. They could have easily imported the UNATCO HQ map from Deus Ex and just changed it accordingly with Deus Ex Invisbile War. But they didn't. They made a new map from scratch and this resulted in a largely inaccurate architectural design in UNATCO that I feel has left that part of Invisible War quite unrealistic. Even though it was abandoned for 20 years, that doesn't explain why the ceiling is 20 feet high or the main door is twice as wide as it should be, etc. And where's the sign for Alex Jacobsens office? Why the heck does it say Aquinas Router everywhere. It's simply pathetic for 20 years this facility stood abandoned and NO ONE bothered to come out and toy around with the router or bring it online, especially with all those signs to lead them on. Basically any Omar could have done it, as they sell BlackMarket BioMods such as the Neural Interface.

Now.

SYSTEM SHOCK & DEUS EX INVISIBLE WAR - As you know, both games set in the year 2072. This is the interesting part. Both games have a Neural Interface. Both games have an artifical intelligence. Both games have cyborgs. Both games have hacking terminals/cyberjacks as well as notes/datacubes and audiologs/notelogs versalife base. However, due to conflicting storylines that Citadel Station was born out of a powerful corporation known as Tri-Optimum and in Invisible War the most powerful organization would be the W.T.O alonside SSC Security. There is no mention of these in System Shock, plus System Shock is based on a world that never had a collapse after the year 2000 or probably not even a third world war. The only thing I can see that closely resembles Citadel in Invsible War would be the Illuminati Ophelia orbiting platform, which would be the furthest they ever got into space. (and probably based on this game, the moon landing was falsified here? :o ) Therefore: System Shock & Deus Ex Invisible War, no matter how similiar they may seem, are NOT in the same universe :( However, I LOVED the inclusion of survivor/resistance logs at the Antarctica research base. This made for a lot of System Shock 1 & 2/Unreal-esque gaming--and soon DooM III!!

The GRAYS - It is finally explained in Deus Ex Invisible War that the Grays were the result of ONLY experiments at VersaLife. These are not aliens or "first contact" material that we all hoped and expected they would be, especially with a rather large absence of UFO's or a lot more gray aliens at the Area 51 base in DXTC (the Conspiracy) The Grays speak telepathically and are human beings merged with monkeys and a lack of any hair at all. VersaLife experimented with them at their Hong Kong HQ as well as their Antarctica Sheppleton Ice Shelf base. I was truely kind of disappointed they weren't real aliens, but I guess no one knows what an alien really looks like until they bring forward valid proof and exploit it on MSNBC or Foxnews. The exclusion of "Men in Black" in Invisible War was quite disappointing but I suppose that died along with MJ-12.

Alex Jacobsen - Where was he in Invisible War? What happened to him after the events of Deus Ex. With MJ-12 out of the scene was well as the protection of Tracer Tong and his Hong Kong based group, he would still be alive. Why wasn't he in this game to meet up and guide Alex Denton on his journey to find JC?

Why are there no mentions of signifigant power characters in the first game in Invisible War - Bob Page is mentioned but only in one or two places and as if he was a very minor figure. In 2050 he was the world's richest man, outclassing Bill Gates & Steve Ballmer many times over. PageNet/Page Industries was a HUGE world class corporation. After the death of its leader in Deus Ex, you'd almost think there would have been a power grab. I suppose there was for a few minutes, but then the collapse happened and all the lights went out. And it would take the world 20 years to get close to what it was before.

Why is there absolutely NO mention of Walton Simons? The former leader of Majestic 12 who was everybit as powerful as JC Denton and his brother Paul. Why is there no mention or even any trace of existence in Invisible for the character known as Joseph Manderley, former UNATCO president. Why is there no mention of United States President Mead, that was in office during the Gray Death and the seceding states belonging to the NSF?

Why didn't Paul Denton go into the Helios merger with JC instead of Alex? Did Paul secretly oppose JC's plans and if he did, why didn't he speak up and tell JC it is the wrong thing to do?

What happened to the Statue of Liberty? In the 2050's it came under signifigant terrorist attack that nearly destroyed it. A Statue of Liberty memorial was placed but there is no trace of the statue AT ALL in Deus Ex Invisible War. Instead, we have a hologram. Why wouldn't they just rebuild the real statue or was computer electronics AFTER the collapse so big that they figured it would cost less just to put up a huge hologram?

The AQUINAS ROUTER. Ok, this part of the game I found to be incredibly unrealistic. The router, non-strategically placed in the basement of UNATCO in ALEX JACOBSENS former office accessible and open to everyone who goes to Liberty including those bums we find in UNATCO!! What on Earth!? If anything, it should have been further down in the MJ-12 base that is under Liberty Island. Even so, re-initializing this router could not have possibly worked. 20 years after the collapse, new communication networks throughout the world were slowly created. Even if Aquinas was reinitialized it couldn't have worked. The old network could be severed in many areas as well as being unmaintained for that long it would also have OLD protocols as well as a significantly slower data transfer rate without the centralization of the Area 51 hub. The way I see it, I don't see how Aquinas could function again at least immediately. It could eventually but that would take a few months, even years of worldwide maintenance and upgrades on servers, cables, lines, repeaters, transmission networks, as well as Satellites. With the collapse the world probably saw the death of Space Travel.. Even before the collapse, most of the world is already in a huge depression with Gray Death everywhere.

The ARCOLOGY - As you know the Arcology sits on top of the Great Pyramid in Egypt as well as makes use of the huge tunnel network inside as well as the spacious caverns and former tombs also underground and inside. The question is, was this created PRE-Collapse or POST-Collapse? Either way this would be a HUGE architectural project. According to Invisible War the WTO made these enclaves for a higher class citizen. Including Upper Seattle, Arcology Cairo, and Trier, Germany.

What do you think? Created Pre-Collapse or Post-Collapse? And by who if Pre-Collapse?

The Red Greasel - There was a significant amount of mention of the highly acclaimed and dangerous 'Red Greasel'. Although through my 13 hour endeavour through Deus Ex Invisible War, I failed to find the RG as well as find the gun that is supposed to kill the RG quite easily. Is this thing even in the game? If someone knows, please tell me, I'd love to know!

The Daughter of Maggie Chow - Noticing that the Aid of Her Holiness (Nicolette DuClare) was the daughter of Maggie Chow surprised me! I had no idea Maggie Chow ever had a daughter, and with who then? I know Chow had some form of relationship with Bob Page, could this be it?

The Dragons Tooth Sword - Ok I found this laser rapier similiar to the one in System Shock and System Shock 2. Is this the evolution of the Dragons Tooth Sword or is that sword that was in the first game also a DIFFERENT laser sword in Invisible War? If you know please tell me.

Morgan Everett - What happened? What DID happen to Morgan Everett? Is there ANY mention of him in Invisible War that I may have missed?

Sam Carter - Yes, there was a mention of him as well as Gunther Hermann in the same note-log. If anyone knows what the skull gun is could they let me know? :) I know why Gunther was unable to retrieve it from Sam.. because he was DEAD. But what DID happen to Sam Carter after the collapse? Who else escaped UNATCO and lived to tell about it.

Joseph Manderely - Yes him again, where did he go after the Collapse? Is there any mention of him in Invisible War?

Louis Pan - Everyone's favourite little Hong Kong brat that hates the americans. 20 years later, what kind of situation do you think he is in? Is he in league with Tracer Tong? There was a reason that Pan-kid was in the first game, and I'd love to find out.

NG Resonance - As I was playing through the game I eventually MET NG Resonance. I however had failed to go to her concert. Is there a way to GO to her concert so she is not as pissed off at you? I played as female Alex so maybe that is why I couldn't get into a friendship with her at Arcology Docking Bay 23.

The INCLINATOR - I totally agree. Its location as well as the archaic level design in the area of the Inclinator makes this a totally unpractical means of mass transportation. IT DOESN'T EVEN MOOD. I was actually quite insulted playing this game and admiring the graphics only to find that due to this games tiny level size, even the inclinator didn't move on screen. The way INTO the inclinator are tiny doors that are no bigger than my bedroom door.

Upper Seattle - Why does Upper Seattle look like a shopping mall? This isn't a city. The only tall buildings are in the distance. And why when I finally get out there (Seattle Space Needle) there are no tall buildings. It's quite an imperfection and I believe the limited MAP size of the modifications to the Unreal engine are the consequence.

The FOUR ENDINGS - All Bad Endings

JC Denton/Helios/Alex Denton merger (w/support of Tracer Tong) - Terrible ending, which I see WORSE than the Helios ending. Everyone is EQUAL, there is no diversity, everyone is linked to a single machine and artificial intelligence, everyone has biomods and augmentations.. What a depressing world. How can Deus Ex 3 possibly continue out of this? What a boring game Deus Ex 3 would be if everyone is linked up like a zombie and equal to each other.. blah!

Omar Ending (Alex & Leo Renegade) - Can you say "The Second Renaissance" ? This ending is so much like the Machine world in The Matrix Trilogy I couldn't believe it. Humans eradicated or transformed into mindless Omar cyborgs that "can't make their own choices" - Leo in Cairo. A potential Deus Ex 3 take off point.

Illuminati Ending (Chad Dumier/Nicolette DuClare continue on as world powers) - Basically a NEW Majestic 12 that continues onward using Alex Denton as their pawn. They reshape the world and the WTO & Order continue on as a basis for peoples government and religion. This is a very possible Deus Ex 3 takeoff point, as I can't see one of the Dentons frying Nicolette DuClare after she helped JC Denton in The Conspiracy.

Knights Templar (Return to the Dark Ages ending without Tracer Tong) - This is the Return to the Dark Ages which doesn't include Tracer Tong. Tracer Tong totally supports JC Denton this time. The Knights Templar is run by an old man who sounds a lot like Admiral Tolwyn from the Wing Commander movie. So basically this moves the worlds machines against the machines which will set the world back into a medieval time in which humanity may start over. I do NOT see this as a Deus Ex 3 takeoff point, unless the game is titled "THIEF IV - Deus Ex" I, for one, do not want to see DX3 as a romp in medieval times.


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End.

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Hopefully in Deus Ex 3 they can analyze the silly mistakes they made in Deus Ex - Invisible War and try to repair them and explain them as best they can. Also, who really is Alex Denton? Is he/she a male/female? Will Deus Ex 3 answer that?

Thank you for reading, please point out comments, suggestions, or questions. I can't wait to hear from you and post your own opinions!!

Thank you & Good Day,

Terr/\

jstnomega on 13/12/2003 at 02:47

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Phooey. That makes no sense, whatsoever.

Think about it.

I mean, if we're smart enough to develop nanotech to that degree, THEN WHY ANY WEAPON differentiation? Instead, why not just some whizbang Sorcerer's wand that'll do everything from spitballs to nukes?

madphilb on 13/12/2003 at 04:59

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Because each weapon's firing system is completely different from each other, the firing chamber and whatnot would have to be reconfigured for each type of ammo.

On the other hand, with the exception of the Rockets, most of the other ammo is very basic.... bullets (SMG, Pistol, Sniper Rifle) are basically just a slug of metal with an explosive powder behind it.... the bowcaster bolts would basically be a plastic sliver/needle of some sort with the chemical inside (we'll forget the fancy glow as a cool looking game feature). The Flame thrower is just a material that can burn, the prod uses some sort of charge. Oh, and the Rail guns generally use an alluminum slug that's magnetically fired (the EMP secondary fire is just an energy charge).

The rockets are the most complex projectile... dumb-fire ones would only require a propellent as well as the explosive front end, to make it homeing (even if it was just a "follow the dot" deal homing on a laser tag) would require a sensor in the front as well as directional jets and some electronics to control it..... and the camera contorled would require even more electronics (a camera as well as a transcever).

PHIL

terrannova on 13/12/2003 at 16:06

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I should have said it before but I forgot, I played the game in nearly 13 hours on NORMAL difficulty.. the way it was meant to be played (me thinks)

terrannova on 14/12/2003 at 22:46

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Oh no kidding?! Wow that's cool man. Thanks for the heads up :D