bikerdude on 9/9/2009 at 09:02
Quote Posted by Muzman
This couldn't be a power thing could it? My supply claims to be a 500w but I wonder if it's not a little soft (it was cheapo and came with a grand total of 4 connectors).
its definitely points to the PSU, so you`ll need to replace it to rule it out..but it could also be the motherboard..
baeuchlein on 9/9/2009 at 22:23
Quote Posted by Muzman
Bizarre new development. Yesterday it worked again, all day. Next day, same problem (strange repeat booting and then switch to the onboard).
I'm beginning to believe it's something else than your graphics card.
Anyway, what exactly happened? You re-inserted the PCIe graphics card, and it worked for a day. The next day, the PCIe graphics card failed and...
who switched to the onboard graphics? Did the computer it, meaning your PCIe card was still inside, or did you pull out the PCIe card and used the onboard video chip instead?
It could be worth leaving the PCIe card out for some days, using the onboard video instead, and check whether there are other severe problems with the card out. Try provoking the gremlin in your machine (with the PCIe card out): Backup everything you need, then shut the computer off overnight, and see whether it will start up the next day. Repeat that for two or three nights, and if no problems arise when starting up the machine as well as while working/playing with it, then it's likely the PCIe card which caused all the trouble.
If, however, there are still more problems and errors than usual when the PCIe card has been taken out of the computer, then it's very likely something else.
Quote Posted by Muzman
XP makes this sort of thing a bitch to troubleshoot anyway. I can't systematically start unplugging drives and so on or it chucks a hissy.
What do you mean? Does it bother you to activate your Windows copy again, or is it something else?
Muzman on 10/9/2009 at 06:43
Well I actually haven't had the thing removed from the case very much through all this. Mostly I've left it there plugged in, hoping just that would happen (it would re-awaken).
The initial switch to the onboard graphics happened automatically. The bios settings are to either try to find the PCIe first or ignore it entirely. It's still on that setting and presumably looks for the PCIe every boot.
It went like this:
The very first time it happened the PC refused to post and went into some sort of loop; try to post, reset, try to post, reset. Not getting anywhere (and not knowing what the problem was) I powered down and left it for a moment, then tried again. It boot up (as I could tell from sounds and lights etc), but with no picture. I swapped the VGA cable to the onboard and here we are. It had checked for the PCIe and skipped it by itself.
What that inital looping means I have no idea, but I suspect it's bad.
I have had the card out a few times and looked it over. There was no correlation between replacing it and it starting to work again. In fact I hadn't touched it in days at the time. Mostly it just sits there. The fan works.
I do suspect the card isn't to blame in all this, but I guess I have to plug it in somewhere else just to check it hasn't been damaged somehow. I'm not sure I want to take it out and see what the gremlin feels like destroying next though ;)
About the XP thing: I might be doing something wrong, but back on 98se I used to plug and unplug drives with gay abandon. 98 would just find whatever drives were there and carry on.
I used to unplug and shuffle around hard drives quite a bit (as this was before good, fast and cheap external interfaces), even quite dodgy, barely working ones, and it didn't care so long as the boot drive was fine.
I tried doing the same sort of thing when I moved over to XP and I remember that it didn't like it at all (but I can't recall the details). When my DVD drive started failing, XP wouldn't boot because it couldn't find it sometimes (I think that's what it was). Unplugging it didn't work either, because, of course, it still couldn't find it.
There's probably more to it than that. I can't remember how it went exactly. But ever since I've been very wary. I took it that sudden changes to the hardware profile (may not be the correct use of 'hardware profile'), particularly regarding disappearing drives, was a no-no with XP.
Matthew on 10/9/2009 at 10:05
'CANNOT FIND NTLDR'?
bikerdude on 10/9/2009 at 10:18
Quote Posted by Matthew
'CANNOT FIND NTLDR'?
either reinstall windows or find a tool; that will repair the ntdlr loader
Muzman on 16/10/2009 at 07:13
Well I tok it out for a while and tried plugging it back in a few days later. Still nothing.
I've yet to try it on a completely different machine though. Don't know enough gamers anymore it seems.
Quote Posted by Matthew
'CANNOT FIND NTLDR'?
No, I had that once before and managed to figure it out. This one is something before windows starts or tries to. Cheers though.
I suppose I'd better get a new one then. ATI seem pretty good in the mid range at the moment. I wonder if I'd be locking myself into a weak card as the world goes PhysX though.
baeuchlein on 16/10/2009 at 12:20
Quote Posted by Muzman
Well I tok it out for a while and tried plugging it back in a few days later. Still nothing.
Did you try to use the computer when "it" (the graphics card, I assume) was still taken out?
Quote Posted by Muzman
I've yet to try it on a completely different machine though.
Yes, it almost never hurts.
For example, I'm currently investigating another graphics card problem: One of my computers has problems booting up when a Radeon 9250 is inside and the machine is cold. However, a Radeon 7500 works in this machine, and the 9250 works in another. And once the first machine gets warm (after one or two reboots, usually), the Radeon 9250 is accepted as well.:weird:
Quote Posted by Muzman
I suppose I'd better get a new one then. ATI seem pretty good in the mid range at the moment. I wonder if I'd be locking myself into a weak card as the world goes PhysX though.
Good question. I doubt that there won't be a long-term solution one day, but in the meantime, one has to think hard about it. And whether there will be some kind of solution for today's ATI cards in the future, no one can tell, I believe.
I'm
so glad I'm not looking for a new machine right now...
Muzman on 19/10/2009 at 07:24
I was always using the machine with the graphics card out. The onboard chip provided the visuals. I would have been really up the creek without that.
Anyway, speaking of up the creek. Fun new development!:
I shut the computer down before going out yesterday evening. When I got home and switched it on, nothing happens. Yay!
Well it's not nothing. The fans all run and I can hear the drives spin up and self test, but that's it. No mouse lights, no keyboard lights, no video. In fact the lights on the front of the machine don't work anymore either. The drives don't do anything other than spin up and sit there spinning. There are no beeps or flashing lights or anything.
It's as if the entire power circuit of the motherboard has slowly atrophied and now the disease has finally reached some vital organ.
I tried swapping out my current CPU for the old one just to see if that did anything. But it was exactly the same.
I'm at a bit of a loss as to where the problem lies now. My CPUs might be ok. I'm still suspicious about the power supply. Should I gamble on the CPU being ok and get a new board with the same slot? I'm thinking the quickest way to fix this is just; new everything. Which means deciding to jump or stay with AMD, Nvidia and Gigabyte now.
Anyone got any ideas about the deadness?
thanks. I'll be over here shopping.
baeuchlein on 20/10/2009 at 10:49
Quote Posted by Muzman
I shut the computer down before going out yesterday evening. When I got home and switched it on, nothing happens. Yay!
Well it's not nothing. The fans all run and I can hear the drives spin up and self test, but that's it.
Looks like bikerdude was right all the time, and either the power supply or the mainboard said "bye-bye" now...:tsktsk:
If possible, try another power supply from a friend. Ensure that your computer has been off for some time, since the problem seems to show up more often if the machine has been powerless for quite a while (unless I forgot something).
If your machine works, then, you can test it with the graphics card instead of the onboard graphics again if you want.
Anyway, if your computer boots with the other power supply, attach
your power supply to your friends machine and check whether it will boot as well. In theory, one of the machines should not work, giving you a good hint to where the problem lies.
If the power supply is faulty, buying a new one should do the trick.
If, however, something else is the culprit (meaning: your computer did
not boot when another power supply was connected to it), then the mainboard would be my number one suspect now. In that case, you have several choices: Look for a mainboard which will take your old CPU(s), or look for anything else and buy a new CPU (and possibly new RAM as well) in the process. Depends on how much money you want to spend, and whether you are content with your current machine or wanted to have something more powerful anyway.
And if both computers mysteriously boot again after exchanging the CPU, it's time to throw some heavy objects across the room and utter swear words.:cheeky:
Muzman on 21/10/2009 at 21:36
Thanks man. I post now from the machine itself. I haven't done anything yet though. It just decided to start (it did the other day too, but I had the temerity to try and reset it, thinking it would stay working. Wrong. Three days later...)
On the plus side this means that the board and processor aren't fried, as I thought they may. An explanation for the graphics card still eludes me, therefore.
Not knowing what was damaged and what wasn't I ordered a bunch of new parts, (needing a working computer yesterday at the moment, or last week even. These things have such great timing) including a new expensive brand name powersupply. So I'll swap that over into the current one first and see what happens.
I think I'll have to bite the bullet and build an entirely new box though, this one having such strange niggling problems over the years that make me even suspect the case has something to do with it.
Now I just have to get around the fact that nothing seems to have IDE ports anymore if they can help it, and all my drives are IDE...
