D'Juhn Keep on 23/2/2009 at 22:02
Quote Posted by RavynousHunter
Yeah, we need more real education (
especially in the US) when it comes to sex and less "NO FUCKING!! ARRRRRRGH! :mad:," which is the gist of
most sex ed classes I had in both middle school and high school. It was up to my parents to teach me about sex, and they did it spot on, in my opinion. None of that "birds and the bees" shit, just "this is your body, this is her body, and this is what happens when ya fuck." Granted, it wasn't that coarse, but they didn't sugar-coat it.
Hell, if the state would pay me $100 a gig and give me a touring bus, I'd go around my state and teach sex ed; no need to hire fancy-smancy speakers who act like treating the whole audience like stereotypical teenagers is going to get through their obviously thick skulls. Well... that and maybe a projector and laptop with access to Powerpoint and the internet.
Please don't take this the wrong way because I'm honestly curious, are you a virgin?
RavynousHunter on 23/2/2009 at 22:12
I plead the fifth on that, your honor.
june gloom on 24/2/2009 at 00:15
KNEW IT
Aja on 24/2/2009 at 01:02
Quote Posted by fett
Here's the religious pro-life argument in a nutshell:
I suggest you print this as a poster, and distribute.
Swiss Mercenary on 24/2/2009 at 02:03
Quote Posted by Kolya
While we haven't emphasized this point it's being discussed all the time, eg for me and DDL it starts with a baby that
can survive outside the mother.
I was angling for "The sperm's clearly alive," is as good a criteria as "Fertilised egg," myself.
Thief13x on 24/2/2009 at 05:10
Quote Posted by fett
Here's the religious pro-life argument in a nutshell:
1) God is going to bless nations that are obedient to scripture, and punish nations that are not.
a) Look at the Roman Empire!
b) Quote poorly researched and outdated Francis Shaeffer text.
2) America is not blessed
a) Look at our schools
*) Play newsclip about Columbine shooting
b) Look at our economy
*) Quote made-up statistics to prove fubar economy is due to democratic policies.
**) If Republican in office, trace problem back to last democratic administration.
***) Rinse and repeat
c) Liberal media, Hollywood, Marylin Manson, Teletubbies, yadda yadda
3) We must get back to the Bible
a) Prayer in schools
*) Be sure not to mention that people might want to pray to other gods if this is re-instituted.
b) No more gay rights.
*) Gay rights are one of the reasons America is not blessed - see point 2c.
c) Stop abortion*) See point 3b.
4) If we can fix all these things God will again bless America like he did in the 50's when no one drank alcohol and married couples slept in separate beds.
5) Offering/ Closing prayer
6) Bang secretary in boy's bathroom during last song. Hurry back to shake hands with congregants at door.
Quite accurate, in my opinion. I would like to add, however, that there are alot of religious pro-lifers that don't subscribe to most of this.
I'm going to step cautiously from here on foward...I don't think you have to be a judgemental right wing extremist to subscribe to the pro-life position. Perhaps less rigidity from the masses would help to keep us from being overshadowed so often though.
Beleg Cúthalion on 24/2/2009 at 10:13
Quote Posted by D'Juhn Keep
No, it's not usually one life versus another it's simply the woman's right to choose what she does with her own body. And yes I believe that is more important than the cells growing inside her.
I think it might be a great idea to call any sort of life a bunch of cells, surely makes sense from the (Dawkins-like) naturalist point of view.
Quote:
Clearly you don't believe this given your dismissive phrases regarding pregnancy but please understand that it's obviously not an easy, clear cut issue. It's interesting you mention rape being an exception. What difference to the foetus does that make? If the rights of the foetus trump those of the woman (except in cases where her life would be in danger I suppose you'd say), why does the rape matter?
It doesn't make any difference regarding the foetus but with respect to what the woman has to suffer... since "to trump" creates a situation of two things, each trying to outnumber the other.
Well, don't get me wrong, I'm seeing this from a...well... European or even German point of view where everybody knows about contraception and religion isn't turned into a lot of outwardly rules which were originally meant to make extra-sure some inner ethical value is protected, but became self-runners quickly. I wonder, though, if making abortions easier will help in educating the people.
DDL on 24/2/2009 at 10:48
Dude, abortions aren't easy, or fun. It's not like people will just give up on birth control and start humping everyone they can "coz it's ok, you can get rid of it easily enough".
Even if we take the aforementioned "quickload" comparison, you don't play a game, run off a cliff, reload your game and run off the same cliff again, do you? The whole point of having a quickload button is so you can AVOID MAKING THE SAME MISTAKE AGAIN, and to a greater or lesser extent, also so that random chance is less likely to completely fuck you over.
Making abortions more accessible won't help in educating people any more than NOT making them accessible will. EDUCATING people will help in educating people. Permitting abortions will just reduce the sum total of unnecessarily ruined lives.
And anyway, we ARE all just a bunch of cells. The key difference here is that while we're all fully differentiated intelligent self-aware bunches of cells (or at least, most of us are), foetuses basically aren't.
D'Juhn Keep on 24/2/2009 at 11:02
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
It doesn't make any difference regarding the foetus but with respect to what the woman has to suffer... since "to trump" creates a situation of two things, each trying to outnumber the other.
Yeah sure, this is my point. How much, according to you, does a woman have to suffer before she has the right to have an abortion? What if it's an especially painful pregnancy, does her added suffering mean an abortion is justified? I'm just trying to see where you're drawing the line here.
You seem to have taken exception with my use of the word trump. I know it's not the best way of describing it, but how else would you describe the prioritising of one set of rights over another? Unless you disagree that that is what's happening?
