fett on 12/2/2009 at 18:57
Quote Posted by SD
Apart from the whole "bats are birds" thing, and the creation of night and day
before the sun.
"Let there be light" has nothing to do with sun you tard. ;)
suliman on 12/2/2009 at 19:55
Well, Genesis says the sun and the moon were created on the fourth day to distinguish between day and night.
jtr7 on 12/2/2009 at 20:00
And morning and evening are more about the beginning and ending of a periodic cycle than light and the absence of light.
Vivian on 13/2/2009 at 11:57
Well, he's here, but he's a bit pissed off and I haven't got to meet him yet. Apparently he thought he was just coming in to talk about this big nerve-thing that giraffes have running from their neck to wrap around their heart (something to do with pressure sensing, I'd hazard a guess) and convergent evolution of retractable claws, but they keep getting him to talk about stuff he has no idea about. Like biomechanics, I guess. Anyway, he's having lunch with us so maybe I can get a few words in.
No sign of jigging and/or pelvic thrusts yet, Muzman.
Chimpy Chompy on 13/2/2009 at 12:42
Quote Posted by fett
"Let there be light" has nothing to do with sun you tard. ;)
But apparently that light was called "day"? Was there something else illuminating the earth before the sun? Or are we talking something different to physical light here?
DDL on 13/2/2009 at 14:02
Quote Posted by Vivian
this big nerve-thing that giraffes have running from their neck to wrap around their heart (something to do with pressure sensing, I'd hazard a guess)
Yupz. Giraffes need stupendously high blood pressure to get blood all the way up to their heads, but it needs to be very rapidly tweakable, or they'd asplode their heads every time they lowered them to drink. So they've got a whole complex network of neck-based pressure valves and nerves and stuff to rachet the pressure right down when needed.
Vivian on 13/2/2009 at 14:20
That's the fella. They're dissecting that thing for TV this afternoon. Well - I got to shake his hand and share a very brief chit-chat (very brief, literally my supervisor said I work on dinosaur locomotion evolution and he said 'oh', then I asked him if the film people were working him hard). Seems a very nice, softly-spoken, ageing academic. Hardly the scoff-spouting dark prince of atheism one might be led to expect. I got a photo, I'll stick it up.
fett on 13/2/2009 at 15:37
Quote Posted by Chimpy Chompy
But apparently that light was called "day"? Was there something else illuminating the earth before the sun? Or are we talking something different to physical light here?
The light was called 'yom' which can mean anything from the passage of a few hours to the length of my penis. The context argues that 'day' and 'night' are not establishing anything to do with the earth's rotation relative to the sun, but with a specific passage of time. Understand this doesn't even necessarily mean chronological time as we think of it, but could refer to the length of time it took for certain events to happen. In other words, if I were using the *same context* as Genesis 1, I could say: "On this day I posted a reply on ttlg. And there was morning and there was evening." I would specifically say it like this if posting on ttlg was the *only* thing I did today. Even if it only took me 7 minutes to do it.
Or if it's the only thing I did today that concerns the person I'm addressing.
Maybe the best way to explain it is to think about when we say, "Yep! Back in the day, I did such and such." Back in the day? What day? Was it a whole day? A specific day? Heh - no. It's none of the above, because we're talking about a vague and nonspecific period of time as it relates to an action we either took in a single moment, or something we did habitually, or the way a general activity used to be performed or perceived. So 'yom' to the bible scholar doesn't tie the day and night to sun at all, or to the passage of a 24 hours time period. This is one of the reasons that even christians fail in reading the bible. Even if it is divinely inspired, it's also man written (verbal plenary inspiration), and words such as 'yom' make it so that while the creation story in whole is to be taken literally, the exact specifics of the "record" are actually subject to Hebrew euphemisms and slang.
What's really sticky about this whole thing is that creationists will argue that almost every single thing about the earth, even it's rotation, the hours of sunlight, whether that sunlight was direct or reflected, etc. was completely different pre-flood. When you start getting into the theory of the water canopy, the effect (or non-effect) of ultra-violet rays, etc. etc. etc. the literal passage of time and everything else in Genesis 1 is interpreted in that light, and subject to the argument, "But the world that was before the flood has passed away."
Yeah, I know. :p
Chimpy Chompy on 13/2/2009 at 18:26
Hmm. I'm having trouble following that, you seem to be suggesting that mention of day and night is some handwavy reference to a vague amount of time passing, in which light and darkness were created and identified?
That sounds like a bit of a stretch to me, although obviously i'm not in a place to argue meanings of hebrew words.
Kolya on 13/2/2009 at 18:51
He also said it's man written. So whoever wrote it can, despite divine inspiration, only use the terms he knows, to describe what is per definition beyond words.
It's a load of bull, but you can make it look like consistent bull if you exert some effort.
