catbarf on 3/5/2009 at 23:01
Quote Posted by dethtoll
If you hate being attacked for being an atheist, and religious folk dislike being attacked for being religious, try this on for size: I can't mention that I'm an apatheist- i.e. someone who neither believes nor disbelieves
and doesn't care one way or the other- without atheists and believers going
apeshit. A sentiment like "the question of God is not important to me" pisses basically everyone off. It's like, you can believe in God, or you can not believe, but if you genuinely don't care you're this great big pariah just begging to be proselytized to. It's like these people can't handle that someone- horror of horrors-
doesn't care enough to take a side.
By definition, dethtoll, that makes you an agnostic atheist :p
BloodCat on 4/5/2009 at 00:11
And there's only one thing we hate more than religious zealotry and fervent defenders of the light of reason. And that's agnostic atheists.
Papy on 4/5/2009 at 03:48
Quote Posted by dethtoll
It's like these people can't handle that someone- horror of horrors-
doesn't care enough to take a side.
Anyone who is passionate about something will more or less define the value his life on his passion. He will take pride in what he does. So when you say you don't care, you are indirectly saying to that person : you have no value. It is indirectly one of the most efficient personal insult you can find. Don't you think their reaction is to be expected?
Shug on 4/5/2009 at 05:42
The unashamed use of horrific portmanteaus such as 'apatheism' is proof enough that a god does not exist
Renzatic on 4/5/2009 at 05:59
I'd say it's definitive proof of the existence of a god, and that we've inherited his slapstick funny sick sense of humor.
God might not play dice, but He's an absolute pro at Mad-Libs.
june gloom on 4/5/2009 at 09:14
Quote Posted by Papy
Don't you think their reaction is to be expected?
No. You seem to think that by declaring that I- me, myself, personally- do not care about religion or lack thereof I am somehow declaring that
other people's beliefs are worthless. This is silly. I am doing nothing of the sort. The question of God is not relevant
to me- I don't care what other people think, they can think whatever they want. They can believe or not believe. That's what freedom of/from religion is all about. They like it, they're happy (or at least think they are), and it works for them. I find that perfectly fine, even desirable. What works for
me is
not fucking worrying about it.
Vasquez on 4/5/2009 at 10:31
Quote Posted by Papy
So when you say you don't care, you are indirectly saying to that person : you have no value. It is indirectly one of the most efficient personal insult you can find. Don't you think their reaction is to be expected?
I think this reaction is quite common in humans (whether it's about religion, owning a car, getting married, having a kid/cat/dog/horse, being a fan of this or that fad or whatever), but it doesn't make it less stupid. If something is really important to YOU, it's incredibly self-centered to assume it's just as important to others.
Papy on 4/5/2009 at 15:37
Quote Posted by dethtoll
You seem to think that by declaring that I- me, myself, personally- do not care about religion or lack thereof I am somehow declaring that
other people's beliefs are worthless.
I didn't mean "value" as what that person think is important, but as the worth of that person in society. By saying "I don't care", you are not saying that the other person's
beliefs are worthless, you are saying that the other person is wasting his time fighting for an idea. For someone with a passion, you are indirectly saying that the other
person is worthless.
Imagine someone works very hard and then spend most of his money to buy a Ferrari. This was his dream. That guy now go to see an old friend, proud to show off his Ferrari, but it turns out that old friend just doesn't care about cars. He has no interest to look inside or under the hood, he doesn't want to have a ride, he just doesn't care, he prefers to go for a walk instead and talk about the good old time. The guy who bought the Ferrari will be most probably be pissed off.
Quote Posted by Vasquez
If something is really important to YOU, it's incredibly self-centered to assume it's just as important to others.
No, this is not about being self-centered, this is about realizing that the reason you thought you had value to the eyes of other is simply wrong. We are hierarchical animals and we always seek ways to get social worth, we always try to impress others by what we do. It may be with buying expensive things, with doing a lot of sports, with playing video games... or with being the champion of an idea. When our defining characteristic does not impress anyone, we kind of feel like a loser.
Vasquez on 4/5/2009 at 16:28
Quote Posted by Papy
Imagine someone works very hard and then spend most of his money to buy a Ferrari. This was his dream. That guy now go to see an old friend, proud to show off his Ferrari, but it turns out that old friend just doesn't care about cars. He has no interest to look inside or under the hood, he doesn't want to have a ride, he just doesn't care, he prefers to go for a walk instead and talk about the good old time. The guy who bought the Ferrari will be most probably be pissed off.
Friends are not the same as people in general. I think it's part of the "duty" of friendship to at least say "Man, I'm happy for you!"
But if it's some acquaintance or even complete stranger, I can't see why it would matter what s/he thinks about the Ferrari.
Quote Posted by Papy
When our defining characteristic does not impress anyone, we kind of feel like a loser.
I think it's safe to assume that religion and atheism most often raise some kind of response in other people, someone completely indifferent to them is more an exception than a rule ;)
If some religious person or raging atheist gets all huffy when s/he meets ONE person who simply doesn't give a shit, I think it's time to take a moment and think why the fuck it's so important to get validation from everyone.
