Dagoth Ur and his Dwemer... - by Talgor
Talgor on 2/5/2004 at 13:51
One thing that nobody seems to have made much of a mention about anywhere that I've seen is that some of the highest members of the Sixth House (those who are named Dagoth) appear to be Dwemer! The first one is Dagoth Uthol, in the caverns that you enter through Kogoruhn, guarding the door into the Red Mountain area. I was rather shocked to encounter a Dwemer down there, but there is no conversation option to mention this to anybody in the game, and nobody seems to have thought it worth mention much anywhere... Where do these Dwemer come from? Why are they still here? Or are they here again?
Striker, you usually have some forum thread to donate, how about this? ;)
Striker on 3/5/2004 at 01:08
Here are a few links that discuss Corprus and Dagoth's. The first link is an unofficial compilation made by Nazz, and the second is an in-game book.
(
http://til.gamingsource.co.uk/fsg/nazzarticle1.shtml)
(
http://til.gamingsource.co.uk/mwbooks/poisonsong.shtml)
The "Poison Song" appears to indicate that members of House Dagoth become 'sleepers', and will eventually become Dagoth's if they catch corprus. I believe that this is different to the generic Ascended Sleepers, who are non-House Dagoth Dunmer infected with Corprus. Now, I specify Dunmer since during the main quest, just before you investigate the Sixth House Base, the Imperials that were infected by Corprus died from the disease.
The only evidence we have regarding the affects of Corprus on the Dwemer is Yagram. This doesn't mean that all Dwemer affected will end up the same, however, it's all we really have to go by. Anyway, after being affected for around 4000 years, he doesn't appear like the Ascended Sleepers at all.
Going by the evidence, it would appear that former high ranking members of House Dagoth (or their offspring) become Dagoths or Ash Vampires. There may be Dwemer among them, however, I don't believe there is any way to prove this.
Talgor on 3/5/2004 at 06:54
Interesting links, as always, thank you... ;)
I'm fairly convinced that the few Dagoth-kin you can/have to slay (I believe one of them held either Sunder of Keening) are Dwemer... Just by appearance: they all have the kind of beards that I have seen only on the Dwemer statues, ghosts, and of course Yagram. We know regrettably little about the physiology of the Dunmer, of course, but the very few examples of beards seen on them appear quite different. Of course, nothing indicates that this is more than a conscious decision, a matter of style... Although why they would choose a style like the Dwemer?
One thing I realized only now is that they appear to have rather dark skin, but all of them are seen in very poorly lit areas... I'll have to investigate this further when I next see one... But still, even if they were Dunmer, they are rather unusual: they don't appear corprus-infected, having the appearance of a normal mer (apart from their hair- and beard-styles), alone of all those named Dagoth (well, except Dagoth Ur himself). Or might this indicate something as well, that they are the "original" followers of Dagoth Ur, the ones that he first "bound as heartwights" like himself, to Lorkhan's heart?
Talgor on 3/5/2004 at 20:29
Most interesting. A detail I missed completely on my first time: the third eye. The Dwemer-Dagoth appear to have their eyes closed, but when they cast a spell, a THIRD eye opens in their forehead. After I noticed this, I also noticed that Dagoth Ur's mask also has THREE eyeholes, the third one also in the forehead. The third eye has interesting symbology connected with it in our "real world", but I had never noticed it in Tamriel... There was that "scribbled note", which concluded with:
"I see you with MY EYE!
And all is SILENCE!
I Wake! I Remember!
LORD!"
...which might indicate the final phase of the sleepers is the opening of the third eye, and the enlightenment this brings...
Interesting. I have to see if there are more details in this...
Talgor on 4/5/2004 at 10:04
Oh, yes. Digging from the real world, one of the symbols connected with the third eye is a man with two sets of limbs, drawn inside a circle.
<A HREF="http://www.rpgplanet.com/morrowind/chalice/corner/display.shtml?img/dwemer-egg3.jpg">The Egg of Time</A>
(that appears to have only one pair of legs, this may have significance, a different representation, or just "hidden behind the garment"...)
Links, links, but a poor brain that can't see anything more than pieces...
actalo on 6/5/2004 at 03:53
I must admit Talgor, I envy your attention to detail. The points you brought up are very interesting and I too, shall review much of what I may have over-looked in the game. To think the makers were designing the game on so many different levels, with a story for every detail. It's a darn good thing I kept all my earlier saves.
-Actalo
Talgor on 6/5/2004 at 07:31
Please do, these kind of things tend to be too complicated for only one pair of eyes to notice... A new perspective will be most welcome.
More details on my earlier observations: the drawing in the Egg of Time does have four legs, Dwemer ghosts have a similiar garment as in the drawing, which covers their legs. Also, the beards on the statues and ghosts are actually _not_ the same as on the Dwemer-Dagoth, but they beard of Yagrum Bagarn is the same... The beard on the ghosts and statues is sort of... "bushy" and dark, and the Dwemer-Dagoth and Yagrum Bagarn have sort of straighter, greenish beard. Does corprus affect beard-growth (not at all unlikely, considering how dramatically if affects the rest of the body)?
