Jordana Chal on 10/1/2003 at 00:32
A little while ago Pete Hines, the Director of PR and Marketing for BethSoft posted the following on the official Elder Scrolls forums:
The Past Games forum is a place for discussion of Bethesda Softworks' older titles in the TES series, from Arena to Redguard. As these games are older, they are naturally harder to find. There are two questions which commonly crop up in here regarding acquiring these titles, however, which need to be put to rest.
If I see a game on an abandonware site, it's ok for me to download it, right? It must be legal, or it wouldn't be there.
Not true. Unfortunately, most software distributed by abandonware sites is actually illegal. If these guys labelled their sites with the words "warez," or "pirated software," you'd realize in an instant that what they offer for download is illegal. The truth of the matter, however, is that most abandonware is actually just older pirated software.
If a company doesn't sell a game any more, it's ok for me to download it, because they aren't losing any money.
False. Just because it isn't for sale any more doesn't mean the software is freeware or in the public domain. The software license that applied the day the software first hit the shelves still applies today. Aside from this, the company that made the software still retains all rights to it. It is their property, plain and simple. The company might choose to relaunch the game, possibly with updated content or on a different platform. If someone took your car and drove it around without permission, even if they brought it back in perfect condition and refueled, and even if you were going to stay home anyway, you'd probably have them arrested, even though their ride didn't cost you anything.
The bottom line is this: There is no commercial Bethesda Softworks product released to public domain, freeware, or GPL. What this means is that if Bethesda Softworks made it and you downloaded it (with the sole exclusion of demos for a few games, where the license allows it), you pirated the software and broke the law. If you must have a copy of an older title, try searching for Elder Scrolls on Ebay or other auction sites, or sites that encourage trading/selling games like (www.ugtz.com) . They're your best bet.
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Pete So that's the deal with downloading older games. I realise it's frustrating if you want to play an older game and can't find a copy, but I don't think it justifies stealing. At the end of the day people have to make this decision for themselves, of course, but I think it's unwise to come in and announce that you've illegally downloaded a copy, like I said it could get you into trouble. None of the moderators of this forum are around at this moment in time but they tend to frown on people who ask for help with warez copies.
(Edit: I've just noticed that Forsythe has recently posted on the hints/spoilers forums so scrap what I said about the mods not being around)
Ania on 10/1/2003 at 11:18
OK, OK. I propose a solution. Not that anyone will take a blind bit of notice, but I think it's beautifully simple:
Why not offer either a copy of Daggerfall or the chance to download it legally to those who register their copy of Morrowind, Tribunal or whatever the latest in the series is at the time?
That way enthusiasts can play the game, and BethSoft know that they have contributed to the company's coffers.
Incidentally, is it legal to make a cd copy for your own use if you own the game? Stuff happens to cds; they wear out, break, stop working. If that happens, you don't get a free replacement from the software company, do you? But licence agreements are for using the software; if you are a licensed user, you should be able to use it, whether it's an original or a copy.
Just curious...:confused:
Ania
Forsythe on 11/1/2003 at 00:01
Jordana: Yeah, I'm back; a week of Xmas, a week of convalescing from something I caught while away, and a week spent frantically catching up from those two weeks I was out of the office. :p Regarding the whole 'abandonware' thing, I feel that as long as you make a sincere effort to purchase it but (as w/ SystemShock1) it's as rare as hen's teeth, you're not hurting anyone by d/l'ing it. That's just my own personal opinion, of course; it's up to everyone to make their own mind up on this'un.
Ania: Yeah, I think it's even been established in court that it's legal to make your own backup copy.
Hidden_7 on 11/1/2003 at 01:56
Right, normally I hate illegal warez and stuff, but with Daggerfall I figured noone would really care, since 1) I bought it when it originally came out, but that was several years ago and I've lost my copy since then 2) It's REALLY hard to find (it was even pretty hard to find when I first got it) 3) If I did find it anywhere it would probably be on eBay, in which case the devolpers don't make any money off of it 4) It would prolly cost somewhere in the vicinity of $5-15, maybe $20 MAX, I'd be willing to mail this money to Bethesda if I thought they would actually care or do anything with it, more likely it would get a laugh and a return to sender. Now I know full well that this does not make it 'legal' and Bethesda still owns the rights and has the ability to do whatever they want with it, including making money, but the fact is they're not. And if they tried, chances are they probably couldn't. This may not make it right, but in my mind it makes it acceptable. Besides, the game didn't even work, so I guess I got what I paid for ;)
P.S. In that car example of Bethesda's I probably WOULDN'T have the guy arrested, since it affected me in absolutly no way what so ever, and could NOT arrest him if I didn't know about it. In fact I'd probably congradualte him for having such a wear-free ride, but hey, thats just me.
Jordana Chal on 11/1/2003 at 03:10
Ania, that's a good idea, but like you said it probably won't ever happen :( I'd love to get my hands on a copy of Arena.....you could buy it directly from BethSoft as recently as a couple of years ago, but unfortunately they stopped selling the older games. Redguard is easy enough to get hold of.....
Hidden_7; Daggerfall is notoriously hard to get going under XP, so even if you had a legit. copy you'd probably still be stuck.
