Current song you are listening to(or the Last song you listened to) - by Andarthiel
Sulphur on 7/10/2019 at 10:08
To be fair, Gryz is severely wrong much of the time.
I came across something absolutely wonderful and heartbreaking. And it has a beautiful video.
[video=youtube;xlXwpaAVoJQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlXwpaAVoJQ[/video]
Gray on 7/10/2019 at 12:23
Maybe so, but it took me 20 minutes to realise I was using bullying tactics, and I don't want to be that guy.
Yeah, I'm a slow thinker.
Gryzemuis on 7/10/2019 at 12:49
Quote Posted by Gray
Just to clarify, that is the asshole way of saying "I disagree". Sorry about that. You are of course entitled to your opinion, I was just trying to make a stupid joke. I want to make that clear before it pointlessly escalates. I'm trying to be less of an arrogant smug prick, it's just that sometimes I fail. I'm sorry.
No need to apologize. Especially when talking about music or movies or books. I used pretty simple (and harsh) words myself. So let me explain.
I understand that music is a matter of taste.
So are books, films, and other expressions of art or entertainment.
But besides that aspect of taste, there are other aspects that weigh in. Originality. Skill. Eye for detail. Rawness. Sincerity. Effectiveness. And more.
Some of those aspects are a lot less subjective than just taste. Take e.g. the music of Samantha Fish. I don't like it, it's not my taste. However, I can hear and see that her music does have certain qualities. It's not bad music. A more extreme example is classical music. Mozart, Bach, all those dudes. Not my music at all. I don't want to listen to classical music. But no way anyone could say that their music is bad or sucks or has no qualities.
Having said that, NiN still sucks. :)
I can not hear or see any quality in it. Please give me a hint where to look. As I've said, I don't like that "sound" of their music. While a lot of music that I like, has sound that most people would describe as "terrible noise". Ranging from The Birthday Party to Big Black to some dark ambient. My favorite album of all time is Psychocandy. Which most people would qualify as "nothing but vacuum-cleaner noise". But the sound of NiN doesn't do anything for me. And I think their "sound" is a big part of who they are.
There isn't a single song that jumped out for me. Not song, not structure, not lyrics, not melody, nothing. When I hear NiN, I hear an American poser, who wants to be something very hard, and really acts like that very hard, but still is a poser. Anyway, enough, I hope you get my point.
I have a few friends from long time ago, who I still speak/see once in a while. With large overlaps in music taste. One of them does like NiN, so they must have some qualities. Maybe I'll ask him some time. :) I mentioned Clan Of Xymox to another friend of mine. It turns out he likes CoX ! Big surprise, I thought nobody liked them. I have listened to a few songs of CoX this week, but I still can't hear it.
Quote:
Maybe so, but it took me 20 minutes to realise I was using bullying tactics, and I don't want to be that guy.
No need to worry. Nobody bullies me. I was around (lurking mostly) when Deathtoll was around. (Although I must admit there were times I would not visit TTLG for a few weeks, just because Deathtoll was irritating as hell. Even when on ignore).
Quote:
To be fair, Gryz is severely wrong much of the time.
Nevah.
I just need to learn to express myself better. English is not my first language. I think native English speakers do not always realize what a huge disadvantage it is when English is not your native tongue. I am also bad at balancing between being brief and explaining myself properly. I also often do not have an opinion and keep my mouth shut. But when I open my mouth, I am always right. :)
Sulphur on 7/10/2019 at 13:07
I agree, expressing yourself in another language is difficult and takes a lot of work and skill to manage. Continuing to clean up your language skills might even eventually explain why you're consistently as right as a stopped clock any given moment.
[video=youtube;f_m1UV1eMAE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_m1UV1eMAE[/video]
*it won't
Gryzemuis on 7/10/2019 at 13:08
Got a question for you, Gray. I am not sure if I should open a new thread for it. I think it fits in nicely here. I hope you're willing to answer. If so, please take your time.
What are your 10 favorite albums of all time ?
It seems there is some overlap in our musical tastes. (E.g. I saw Nitzer Ebb live in 1987 in my hometown. I bought the vinyl at the time). But your taste and knowledge is a lot wider than mine. I always want to hear new music, see new films, etc. Stuff I didn't know existed before. So maybe you can point me in the right direction with a small list of your favorite albums ?
Some humble requests.
Nothing famous please. No Beatles or Rolling Stones. I'm sure Bowie has made a few brilliant albums, but I've heard them or at least heard the best songs.
Artists should appear not more than once on the list. It's only 10 entries. If you can't pick an album, you can combine two, or three, albums from one artist. E.g. if I wanted something from The Cure on my list, I'd put Seventeen Seconds/Faith/Pornography combined as one entry on the list. (FYI, that combination would not be in my top 10, but it would be in my top 100).
No fads of the day. I'd like to hear what sticks.
Thanks in advance.
Gray on 7/10/2019 at 13:28
My top 10 favourite albums is a list of about 200 albums. I'll reply to that properly once I get back, right now I have to go and pick up my grand daughter from school.
demagogue on 7/10/2019 at 14:20
Lol. Well there's no accounting for taste. NiN is culturally important and important in the music world, at least the indie music world, who also happened to have a lot of mainstream success. I think part of it is because some of the sound is designed to be alienating to a certain perspective. It's a kind of punk sensibility; they want to be flipping the bird and alienating the straight crowd. So if one has that perspective, it's not surprising that the sound would actually be alienating, and for certain types, being alienating by itself is disqualification. (I personally get off on alienating sounds, but I recognize I'm not representative on that.)
It also helps that me and Gray (and a few others here) are synth geeks, and NiN knows how to make interesting and definitive sounds that no one else can even approach without everyone just saying they're just copying NiN. There are some interviews with Trent Reznor where he talks about going out of his way to twist the dials on a synth until they break the sound, and he's looking for some sweet spot that evokes the most disgust or alienation or just weirdness as viscerally as he can. So if you're having a reaction to it like that; it's by design. The content of his songs are also very raw and confessional, which also alienates and crosses boundaries for people that just want their music on the lighter end to relax or jam or whatever at the end of a long day.
Yeah, synthing and an industrial sound is its own kind of "musicality" with its own history and habits and language that require some work to get into; so in that respect it's not like Coldplay or post-Gabriel Genesis (I don't know what generation you are) which wear their popular appeal on their sleeve. That's my way of empathizing with why someone could legitimately really not like NiN while still giving some context as to why they're still important in a sense. (Just don't ask me to do that for Kanye because I don't have the emotional energy to be consistent there and also admit he's "just as culturally important". Music is still about emotion in the end, so you gotta be true to what moves you no matter what.)
As for top 10 albums, I also can't give my top 10 ever list, but I can give a list of 10 albums that mean a lot to me and probably some indication of what moves me. Well the problem is I don't really listen to music by album. I make my own mixes and listen that way. But I'll try anyway...
Air - Moon Safari
Belle and Sebastian - If You're Feeling Sinister
Built to Spill - There's Nothing Wrong with Love
Counting Crows - August and Everything After
Depeche Mode - Violator
Hindi Zahra - Handmade
Josh Ritter - So Runs the World Away
Mogwai - Mr. Beast
Russian Red - I Love Your Glasses
Sting - 10 Summoner Tales
No, I can't do it in just 10 at all. This is just an arbitrary list of 10 albums that mean something to me but there are a lot of others that mean just as much. I just stopped when I got to the 10th one.
Gryzemuis on 7/10/2019 at 15:05
I'm not unfamiliar with industrial music, synth, electronic, etc. Or noise. I have a bunch of Throbbing Gristle albums. Both in my flac-collection, my old CDs and even some old vinyl albums. I listened to Cabaret Voltaire in the early eighties (and still do). I got (and like) ton-loads of Coil stuff. I've seen Chris and Cosey live in the late eighties. Like I said, I like stuff I've never heard before. So I'm not driven away by unusual sound (or music) itself. It's just that NiN doesn't do it for me. Maybe it's because they are American. There's American stuff I like. The Cramps, The Ramones, The Gunclub. John Bender (there's some obscure electronic music for you. :)) Loads of new American stuff too. But on average I like British music a lot more. Maybe it's just Reznor's voice ? Maybe it's because I was young in the eighties, and everything felt new and original then. By the time NiN came around (Pretty Hate Machine is from 1989) my taste was already set, and NiN didn't fit. I do like new music, so it's not just because I'm old and can't "adjust" anymore. (Examples of newer music that I like are: Trip Hop, Lounge, lots of Ambient (and now Dark Ambient), Chill/Trance stuff, some electronic music (Trentemoller, Sonoio). So I'm not just an "eighties-only" guy (I hope).
Another example of American (alternative) music I don't like is Grunge. There isn't a single grunge band, album or song I like. I dislike them all. :)
Thanks for your list. I got 3 of those albums (Air, B&S and Violator). And of course I like them.
I remember not liking Counting Crows (for starters, because they are hippies !). I actually did buy "August" back in the days. But decided I didn't like it after all.
I don't like Sting. (Police are ok). Except for the Johnny Cash song "I hung my head". That song is brilliant. I only later found out it wasn't an old country classic, but a song written by Sting.
The other albums/artists I don't know. I will surely listen to those albums.
Gray on 7/10/2019 at 15:26
Top 10 albums:
Autechre: Tri Repetae (techno)
Bob Hund: Omslag: Martin Kann (alt. rock, thick southern Swedish accent, surreal lyrics)
Covenant: Sequencer (EBM/electronic noise-pop, absolutely perfect in every way)
Depeche Mode: Black Celebration (electronic pop)
808 State: ex:el (techno)
Front Line Assembly: oh, let's go with... Tactical Neural Implant, but they've done so many awesome albums (EBM/techno/industrial)
Front 242: Front By Front (angry shouty Belgians with drum machines)
Information Society: Don't Be Afraid (EBM/industrial; most of their other albums are more pop, but this is the best one)
Kraftwerk: Computerwelt (or pretty much any other of their albums, can't go wrong there; one of the bands that pretty much invented several different genres of electronic music)
KMFDM: either Nihil or WWIII, both are pure solid quality (industrial rock)
Nine Inch Nails: Pretty Hate Machine (yeah, you knew one of them had to be on the list; Trent admittely plagiarised Ministry, but he became much more popular than they were, and more or less ushered in industrial rock to the mainstream)
Orbital: In Sides (techno)
Rammstein: pretty much any album, but let's go with Sehnsucht (German industrial rock)
Sisters of Mercy: Floodland (goth rock, except Eldritch always hated being labelled "goth")
They Might Be Giants: any album, so let's say... Flood (quirky surreal alternative rock)
Underworld: Dubnobasswithmyheadman (techno)
VNV Nation: Empires (EBM/electronic pop)
Xymox: The Clan of Xymox (goth)
I'm sure that's 10 albums, but I suck at counting. Ordered alphabetically, not by quality. I have a lot more to say on the subject, but I'm trying to keep it short.
demagogue on 7/10/2019 at 15:35
@Gryzemuis, I understand what you mean. The US and UK are definitely coming from different places especially with electronic music. I feel really close to both sides actually. They both speak to me (in different ways; the whole Gary Numan - NiN dynamic always amuses me. I love both but, yeah, they're coming from very different places), but I can understand having an allegiance for one and distaste for the other.
Oh, and not to get us too far off topic either, Josh Turner released another fine Paul Simon cover today, and that's what's warmed my heart just today, just now.
[video=youtube;Ifb9pMolZAQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifb9pMolZAQ[/video]