Dia on 8/7/2009 at 15:00
Quote Posted by Kolya
It's interesting how all the voluntarily childless people emphasize how much they
just love kids.
And then they hear a child crying at the supermarket and hate it, hate the parents and ooze in their superior decision to keep on staying egotists for the rest of their lives.
I'm a parent and I
hate it when somebody's kid starts throwing a tantrum at the supermarket, movies, etc. Especially if it's my kid. :o ;)
Sorry; but I've never met the egotist type of person who thinks they're all superior to the rest of us (parents) because they've consciously chosen not to have children. Maybe I should get out more, but the childless couples I've met who've made this choice have always had logical and well thought-out reasons as to why they've chosen not to become parents. I
have heard the type of rants from people Vas cites and it just goes against my grain to hear such stereotypical bullshit aimed at someone who's chosen to remain childless. I've also heard the phrase, 'If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em' aimed at those parents who continue to procreate when it's a wonder that they can afford to feed themselves, let alone a whole passel of offspring (though that phrase is usually used when the parents start pissin' & moanin' about the deplorable state of their finances).
I agree with Starry; though while I think it's admirable that some people choose not to have kids, it's really no one else's business.
Starrfall on 8/7/2009 at 15:02
Quote Posted by Stitch
While I don't necessarily agree with the overly confrontational tone the anti-childfree side has adopted in this thread, they most certainly do have a point. Most childfree couples I've met--i.e. my closest friends--live in a state of suspended 20-something existence. I recognize that the freedom to get drunk when you want and purchase iphones and take two vacations a year is pretty compelling, but at a certain point--40, maybe?--that lifestyle will certainly grow stale. I'm not saying that all childfree couples are selfish and materialistic (or that having kids is the only next step of maturity), but these childfree friends of mine would all make fantastic parents, if only they'd take the plunge. The fact that they all have great qualities to pass on to children makes it all the more frustrating.
I don't really disagree with you. But the decision not to have kids certainly isn't anything to hassle someone over (discuss sure, but not hassle) and that's kinda what Vas and others are making it sound like is happening to them. (in real life I mean, not our ttlg disfunctional family bickering)
Vasquez on 8/7/2009 at 15:19
Quote Posted by Stitch
Most childfree couples I've met--i.e. my closest friends--live in a state of suspended 20-something existence.
these childfree friends of mine would all make fantastic parents, if only they'd take the plunge.
Eh? ;)
And like Dia said, having kids of your own doesn't mean you couldn't generally dislike children (I don't mean Dia does, but I've met parents who admit they barely tolerate the friends of their kids, but love their own offspring to death).
I also know childfree people who have many godchildren, who spend much of their free time doing voluntary work with troubled kids and do a marvelous job etc.
So, even the loving kids - not loving kids doesn't correlate to having or not having them yourself.
I, for one childfree, don't emphasize how much I love kids, but that's not the same as HATING kids or wishing them ill. I truly wish that every child had a good childhood and parents who really deserve that job, and reading about abusing/neglecting parents drives me nuts with rage, but on personal level I can't say I enjoy the presence of small kids. If I absolutely have to be around them, I'm nice and polite to them (like to any people I don't especially like, but must tolerate nevertheless), but inside I'm counting minutes to when I can leave ;)
A bit older kids, about 10 years and up, are mostly cool, and I get along with them great :)
henke on 8/7/2009 at 15:24
Quote Posted by Starrfall
I can't believe anyone gives a shit about someone else not having kids.
^^^
this
I can't believe how worked up people are getting over this topic.
Stitch on 8/7/2009 at 15:29
Quote Posted by Vasquez
Eh? ;)
Hey, they're good people with a lot to offer, and having kids would force them to grow up a bit and become the great parent they've got somewhere inside.
But I also agree with Starry that not having kids is a personal choice, and I wouldn't feel it to be an appropriate topic to bring up.
Thirith on 8/7/2009 at 15:32
Quote Posted by Stitch
Hey, they're good people with a lot to offer, and having kids would force them to grow up a bit and become the great parent they've got somewhere inside.
It sounds like your friends are pretty much Hugh Grant in
About A Boy. :D
Kuuso on 8/7/2009 at 15:39
Having children is one of the most selfish thing a person can do.
Thirith on 8/7/2009 at 15:51
Oh, FFS. Sweeping generalisations do nothing other than make you look like an idiot (whoever you are). Judgmental sweeping generalisations make you look like an idiot and an arsehole.
Some parents are parents for selfish reasons. Some parents are parents for unselfish reasons. Some couples don't have children for selfish reasons. Some couples don't have children for unselfish reasons.
What the fuck is so difficult about accepting that all of the above deserve to be looked at as individual cases rather than pigeonholed according to our preconceived notions and anecdotal evidence?
LesserFollies on 8/7/2009 at 16:05
There's no denying the fact that biologically what we're here to do is reproduce. But that's always what's sort of bugged me about the idea of having children; it seems so animalistic, kind of. Breastfeeding? Yikes. :weird:
And there do seem to be plenty of Americans; if we're not completely replacing ourselves, that might just be a better thing for the world than not. We consume too much, and most of our children are overweight and undereducated.
What's scary is that, as Stitch says, the people choosing to not have kids are often the people who should. Family size decreases as educational level goes up, and that's not a good thing for this country's future.
Kolya on 8/7/2009 at 16:10
Quote Posted by Thirith
What the fuck is so difficult about accepting that all of the above deserve to be looked at as individual cases rather than pigeonholed according to our preconceived notions and anecdotal evidence?
This is the end of internet conversations. Thank you very much.
Quote Posted by LesserFollies
Breastfeeding? Yikes.
:(
