june gloom on 16/7/2009 at 05:30
Quote Posted by Brethren
Yo Kettle, this is the Pot, I got sumtin to say. :p
That would be really funny if your point was actually valid.
ercles on 16/7/2009 at 05:42
Pretty fair really, although you can be a real dick sometimes deth, it always seems like you do it because you enjoy ttlg, not because you consider yourself above it all.
Vasquez on 16/7/2009 at 08:20
Quote Posted by Tocky
The point was that the statement which is simple, true, and unlikely is taken as an attack of some kind.
Not attack, just an utterly stupid argument, even as an example - and one that's not very uncommon either. Same category of breeder bingoisms as "But what if YOUR parents had decided they don't want kids!?"
You seem to have decided that all childfree people have skin as thick as wet tissue paper, and they see "attacks" everywhere. I know nothing I say will change your stance, but I still say you're wrong.
Obviously when you're in your late teens or early 20's and take
everything so seriously, you can be touchy about
anything that seems to critizice your choices (and when you're young and childfree, you get the "Oh haha, you will surely change your mind when you GROW UP!" a lot more than when you're 40 ;) ).
Some people can stay touchy even when they grow up, just like some people can stay rude and intrusing when they grow up. But almost all of the childfree people I know in their 30-40-50-60's are just like anyone, normal people that you couldn't tell from childed persons unless they told you. They still get bingoed, some more and some less, but they mostly take it with humor :)
(Some are literally harassed over their choice, with grandchild-craving in-laws and such, but those are thankfully a minority.)
From my point of view it's more like some (Note: Some, not all of them) parents take it as a personal attack against their choice to have kids when they hear someone chooses not to. It's like the answer "Well, I'm not planning to have any" translates to their ears as "OMG are you CRAZY? I'm not gonna be STUPID like YOU and breed mindlessly!!!"
And some people have never even realised it's an actual choice, I've seen minds go boggle when they try to wrap around the concept.
I guess this topic is a bit touchy for all sides :) As a lifestyle choice it clearly goes beyond things like whether you buy a minivan or a sedan.
Oh, and I told about the Breeder Bingo to a friend of mine - who has kids. She laughed and said, "I know what you mean, we call that same type of people 'supermoms' and 'superdads'!".
I guess the word "breeder" rings as differently to a Finn as the word "free" compared to English speakers.
Stitch on 16/7/2009 at 15:13
Quote Posted by Vasquez
You seem to have decided that all childfree people have skin as thick as wet tissue paper, and they see "attacks" everywhere. I know nothing I say will change your stance, but I still say you're wrong.
The content of this thread so far clearly proves otherwise. Generally speaking, none of the pro-children (lol) arguers have said anything all that controversial and yet you guys have been hammering away at the barricades as if we were personally calling you out one by one.
While there has been some discussion of declining birthrates and the like, I don't think
anybody in this thread would actually take the stance that there is (currently) a duty to procreate. And likewise, while AR and others including myself have railed against the selfish mindset of a certain type of "childfree" individual, we've also made it abundantly clear that
we aren't talking about everyone who decides not to have kids.
To have kids or not have kids is your personal decision to make, and nobody has the right to publicly call you out on it. None of us are arguing otherwise.
But at the same time, this thread has been steadily unraveling from the initial post as the "childfree" advocates further entrench against personal attacks not actually being made and language betraying an "us vs. them" mindset steadily creeps in to further poison the dialogue. I'll agree that certain people on the pro-child side have poured gasoline on the fire, but their core attacks have been against mindsets and not necessarily individuals posting.
DDL on 16/7/2009 at 16:06
I'd say both 'sides' in this thread are pretty guilty of overreacting. A lot.
Still, if you can get past all the mudslinging there's still some interesting discussion. If you look closely.
Matthew on 16/7/2009 at 18:33
Hold on, I always thought 'breeder' referred to someone involved in some rather extreme sexual lifestyle choices?
june gloom on 16/7/2009 at 19:26
Quote Posted by ercles
Pretty fair really, although you can be a real dick sometimes deth, it always seems like you do it because you enjoy ttlg, not because you consider yourself above it all.
I love it here! It's like the Orks. I'm always up for a good fight. And telling Koki off. :D
Vasquez on 16/7/2009 at 20:32
Quote Posted by Alinestra Covelia
part of it may just be the perfectly human emotion of looking at a childfree person when you're up to your ears in parenting chores and thinking (perhaps with some justification) that this is inherently imbalanced.
In some cases, I wouldn't be surprised, because the worst flak I've personally gotten have come from people who have been not-so-happy with their life with children. Even though they've preached how "it's all worth it" and the best thing that can happen to you etc.
But now, I'm curious again :) Even though there's a whole variety of childfree people from all walks of life, there seems to be one trait that's more common in us (at least the members of our Finn-forums): Strong need of solitude.
I can be very social, it's great fun to meet friends and family, and in my work I also meet new people all the time. But to balance that out I need a lot of quiet time - being at home, walks in the woods, anything that's not noisy and doesn't involve other people. Fortunately my man is a lot like me in this matter, so we can be sort of "alone together", but I also need complete solitude regularly. Every summer I go to our summerplace, in the middle of the woods, stay there all by myself for a week, two or three. After that I can handle being social till next summer again, with just mini-breaks at home ;)
How about you other TTLG childfree people, are you super-social or do you enjoy peace and quiet? :)
Harvester on 17/7/2009 at 02:11
Personally I don't think I'm ever going to have children.
Because
a) I have autism and don't think I would be a good parent. I don't think I'd get a good feeling for how to properly raise a child. I mean what's reasonable to allow and disallow, how strict to be, how to transfer moral values and ethics on my child, etc.
b) Autism is hereditary and I don't want to pass it along to my child. My life is bearable but my child could easily get a worse form of autism and have a very tough life.
c) I have further mental problems and insecurity. I would lie awake at night about whether I'm doing the right things when it comes to parenting. And I have depressed spells during which I doubt I could be a good father to my children.
But I like kids just fine. I mostly like babies and small toddlers because of the cute factor, and kids aged 10 or older, with whom I can talk about video games or otherwise have a decent conversation. With teenagers I'm also decent, it's easy for me because I can just chat with them, I don't have to raise them so I don't have to be strict with them or anything. I'm not that good with 6 year olds, kids around that age.
