Vasquez on 12/7/2009 at 12:54
Quote Posted by Shadowcat
Curiously enough, neither of my siblings (both older) have had kids either, and I'll be a little surprised at this point if either of them ever do.
I have a brother who's 9 years older than me, also voluntary childless :)
Thirith: I'm guessing there's no pattern. For myself I can tell I've had a good, happy childhood and I'm in very good terms with my parents and brother. I have two friends who had a very dysfunctional childhood, and they both have kids.
And I'm not generalising here, just saying it can go either way. Of course there are also childfree people with unhappy childhood. If someone has had such a bad childhood that it could negatively affect his/her ability as a parent, I think it's a good thing if s/he realises that and bases his/her choices on that knowledge.
TJKeranen on 12/7/2009 at 13:56
I consider my relationship with my parents and the rest of my family to be a healthy one.
Having bad experiences in your childhood can certainly cause you to never want kids of your own, but on the other hand it can -- and does too, I know some unfortunate examples -- also cause you to get a bunch of kids and then abuse them in turn.
I've always been interested in a million and one things, but children just aren't one of them. Getting them anyway just because it's someone else's idea of the proper thing to do is something that I find profoundly silly, since it would effectively stop me from doing a lot of the things that I like doing, things that I get my sense of gratification and achievement from. I don't doubt for a second the pride and joy parents can feel even with all the hardships they must endure bringing up a kid, but one really cannot miss what one doesn't know about -- they on the other hand will never know how awesome it is to be me. :)
I wasn't really even aware of any social pressure towards people not getting kids until quite recently. I always thought it was a non-issue, something that everyone just makes up their mind on by themselves and that's it. Closing 30, I'm apparently now in the age where I'm finally supposed to start ensuring the continuation of my lineage, though, and for a few years now, from here and there, there have been questions and there have been suggestions. But I'm a guy, I get it easy. Most of the time (not always) people just accept my neutral disregard to the whole thing or even agree with me (I've found out recently that a lot of my long-time friends share my views).
Some of the women I know, however, are really taking a beating from the most ridiculous sources (one of them even when the reasons for her not having kids is purely a medical one), so there really is a need for "childfree" social groups to provide some support, though mainly they act just as any other social network. I have no idea how many years it has been since I wrote something on TTLG that had anything to do with Looking Glass Studios or their games.
Tocky on 13/7/2009 at 00:10
If somebody has ovarian cancer or somebody stabbed them in the uterous then I guess they need a support group. If, however, they join a group because they blew a fuse when some person asked them when they are going to have a kid then that is just strange. If anything it is a compliment. It is saying hey I would like to see more of your kind on the planet. Of course when your eyes catch fire and you start spouting what monsters most kids are (which is not true) then they reevaluate.
I tend to go with the "there is no such thing as a bad kid" to paraphrase Spencer Tracy. As Dr. deth said, it is a parent failure for the most part. I'll say this though, it is sometimes like turning a battleship with a rowboat. It can be done but you have to row constant. And the toddler years are precious. They will buck up as you teach them but they accept when you remain constant. This is particularly true if you are a source of fun for them.
The teens you just survive. You try to give them your reasons on why this or that thing means such and such to you but they are at thier most selfish and obstinate then. One day in thier twenties they come to you and tell you they understand now and you are right but that is little comfort when you just wanted to save them hard lessons. Or you luck out and they listen the first time.
But no matter what you love them from the moment they open thier eyes. That is what you pass on that is most important. Hitler didn't love kids. He loved his race.
Stitch on 13/7/2009 at 00:24
Have kinds or don't have kids, that's the choice of an individual and I'll respect it. There are a lot of reasons not to have kids, some of which are admirable and some of which aren't.
But if you use words like "childfree" and "breeder," I sincerely hope a phalanx of soccer moms corners you in public and drowns you it tales of diaper rashes and first grade recitals.
And while we'd be leaving the comfort zone in which "childfree" advocates can revel in ill-earned righteous indignation, a far more interesting topic for debate is what the effects of a declining birthdate--more specifically, a growing elder population and a dwindling youth--will have on the world as we know it.
Scots Taffer on 13/7/2009 at 00:35
Quote Posted by Stitch
But if you use words like "childfree" and "breeder," I sincerely hope a phalanx of soccer moms corners you in public and drowns you in tales of diaper rashes and first grade recitals.
Classic Stitch, harking back to the days of comments where you wished homophobes were surrounded by gay guys fucking. :cool:
Tocky on 13/7/2009 at 00:54
Hitler would not like it. The complexion of the world will change which makes not a damn but culture will as well and that does. If new dominant cultures can adapt or keep an attitude which prizes education and tolerance then it is just the details that change and they always have. I think they will. Look at China. They fill a big gap. Not real great on personal freedom but in an elbow to elbow world... no I can't say that. Freedom always matters. A voice for the people always matters.
Hell I don't know. I would like to see other cultures take what is best from the west and the current fad of hate evil whitey is a detriment to that. I don't know. Next.
And take a course in wiping old peoples asses for lots of thier cash.
And holycrap Scots you interjected and Hitler still wouldn't like it.
aguywhoplaysthief on 13/7/2009 at 02:27
Quote Posted by Stitch
a far more interesting topic for debate is what the effects of a declining birthdate--more specifically, a growing elder population and a dwindling youth--will have on the world as we know it.
For one thing, the populations with the greatest carbon footprint per person will be going down, although it may not be quick enough to make any difference.
june gloom on 13/7/2009 at 02:32
Quote Posted by Tocky
If somebody has ovarian cancer or somebody stabbed them in the uterous then I guess they need a support group. If, however, they join a group because they blew a fuse when some person asked them when they are going to have a kid then that is just strange. If anything it is a compliment. It is saying hey I would like to see more of your kind on the planet. Of course when your eyes catch fire and you start spouting what monsters most kids are (which is not true) then they reevaluate.
This. I have no problem with most people who forego children, same as I have no problem with responsible, loving parents who
do have children. But the Hardcore Childfree people- the sorts who come up with words like "breeder"- are among the most unlikeable, arrogant, selfish,
childish people on the planet. They're bigger dickholes than ancaps, and of course there's a lot of overlap.
Thirith on 13/7/2009 at 05:12
I always thought that the word "breeder" originated with gays and lesbians; at least that's where I first heard it, and this thread is the first time I've heard it used by others. Might be wrong, though.
Stitch on 13/7/2009 at 05:36
It did, actually, but dethy still makes a very valid point, and by that I mean WOULD HAVE CHILDREN WITH HIM
