Starrfall on 29/3/2009 at 04:54
shhh go away this is important
Rug Burn Junky on 29/3/2009 at 13:00
I'm a monkey for Nick Swisher.
Fringe on 29/3/2009 at 18:42
Quote Posted by Rug Burn Junky
But that really glosses over the fact that one has to make real tangible sacrifices to work on Wall Street. I'm not going to say that these poor souls are all being exploited, but the only reason many of these people (myself included) are willing to put up with the stress involved is the monetary reward. The lifestyle is brutal. And a company in crisis like AIG is going to be a cauldron of stress that no sane person is going to put up with unless there is a reward attendant thereto. To hold that reward out to people to fix it, and then yank it back AFTER they've done the work? That's really unconscionable.
(
http://www.alternet.org/workplace/133627/aig_exec_whines_about_public_anger%2C_and_now_we%27re_supposed_to_pity_him_yeah%2C_right/) Matt Taibbi versus Jake DeSantis... your thoughts.
Quote Posted by Matt Taibbi
"None of us should be cheated of our payments any more than a plumber should be cheated after he has fixed the pipes but a careless electrician causes a fire that burns down the house."First of all, Jake, you asshole, no plumber in the world gets paid a $740,000 bonus, over and above his salary, just to keep plumbing. Second, try living on a plumber's salary before you even think about comparing yourself to one; you're inviting a pitchfork in the gut by even thinking along those lines. Third, Jake, if you were a plumber, and the electrician burned the house down -- well, guess what? If you and that electrician worked for the same company, you actually wouldn't get paid for that job.
Out in the real world, when your company burns a house down, you're not getting paid by that client. It's only on Wall Street, where the every-man-for-himself ethos is built into an insanely selfish and greed-addled compensation system, that people like you expect to get paid in a bubble -- only there do people expect their performance bonuses no matter how much money the shareholders lose overall, no matter how many people get laid off after the hostile takeover, no matter how ill-considered the mortgages lent out by your division were.
You expect that money because you think it's owed to you. But what money? The money is gone. Your boss, if not you, set it all afire. You want the money, but where exactly do you think it's coming from?
Do you just not understand that that money now would have to come out of someone else's pocket? That it would have to come from middle-class taxpayers, real plumbers, people who didn't make millions over the years in equity and commodity trading?
I am going to do the Internet coward thing: quote someone else and run away really fast.
Because, really, why should I pretend that I can out-write Matt Taibbi?
Scots Taffer on 29/3/2009 at 23:34
Taibbi may write well but his tirade is just as full of the one-sided bullshit that he charges DeSantis with. All this "skank he's sleeping with" type rhetoric because "I know people in this world". Nice qualification of your sources, you gonzo fuckwit. He has a point somewhere buried beneath the venom but it's not easily seen or taken into consideration.
Chade on 30/3/2009 at 01:07
Fringe, what
was that crap? Admitedly, I only read the first page, but I think it was enough to get the picture.
In all that barrage of text, the guy didn't put forward a single sourced fact about the topic on hand. The few times he even approached a fact, he just showed himself to be clueless.
Quote:
Jake, if you were a plumber, and the electrician burned the house down -- well, guess what? If you and that electrician worked for the same company, you actually wouldn't get paid for that job.
Well, at least he's right that the
company wouldn't be paid ... (EDIT: actually, this is one area which depends heavily on the specific situation, which is why it's such a bad example. Nonetheless, if we want to be honest with ourselves, and compare the AIG situation to large construction jobs, then a tradesman would indeed expect to be paid even if the overall project went poorly.)
Quote:
If these transactions aren't and never were your expertise, then where the hell is your value here?
Apparantly CDS's are the only thing AIG did ...
Anyway, I'm not going to quote-snipe the entire thing.
If all he'd said was "I don't pity DeSantis because he earned so much money", I could have sympathised with where he was coming from. But ranting about a bunch of unsourced crap just exposes him for a fool.
Fringe on 30/3/2009 at 04:08
Quote Posted by Chade
Admitedly, I only read the first page, but I think it was enough to get the picture.
In all that barrage of text...
Barrage of text? This is an
article about the
financial crisis. What did you expect? A twitter feed?
If you can't recognize succinct, capable writing, don't blame me.
Quote:
...the guy didn't put forward a single sourced fact about the topic on hand. The few times he even approached a fact, he just showed himself to be clueless.
Perhaps you would appreciate (
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26793903/the_big_takeover/print) this bit of context about Taibbi's research. This is not a man without background. He may be wrong (god fucking knows I'm not an expert), but, if he is, he's certainly shown his work.
Quote:
Apparantly CDS's are the only thing AIG did ...
One part of DeSantis's argument is that he was indispensable to solving the credit default swap crisis because he knew so much about them. Another part is that he, personally, is blameless because he knew nothing about credit default swaps. Taibbi is pointing out the contradiction. What part of this do you not understand?
Anyway, yes--it is a tirade, but I appreciate a damn good tirade every once in a while.
Chade on 30/3/2009 at 04:59
I'm happy to read a barrage of text. But I expect that text to contain information.
Succint, capable writing? This isn't fiction. Well, it shouldn't be. Ultimately his article should be judged by the information it provides. As he doesn't provide any information, and what little he hints at is incorrect, it naturally comes up short.
Quote:
One part of DeSantis's argument is that he was indispensable to solving the credit default swap crisis because he knew so much about them. Another part is that he, personally, is blameless because he knew nothing about credit default swaps. Taibbi is pointing out the contradiction.
Man, Taibbi is taking you for a ride. There is no contradiction, and Taibbi is a either a fool, or lazy, or dishonest to claim that there is. This stuff has been well reported. DeSantis and other AIG employees in his position have been busy wringing as much money for AIG and the taxpayer as they can by selling
profitable parts of AIG's business.
I didn't bother reading that second article, so I don't deny I might have missed out on something brilliant. But skimming over a few paragraphs left me in little doubt that it was similarly devoid of any actual factual information about what has been going on. Feel free to quote specific bits of text from the article if you feel it will prove me wrong.
Muzman on 30/3/2009 at 20:03
I haven't been keeping up wih this thread but I thought I'd throw this in (might have been in one of the other threads).
I was just listening to (
http://www.declaringindependenceradio.com/) Ed Brayton's radio show and he and his guest were talking about some idea to, instead of half assed nationalising the banks, a big part of the bailout should have seen the government buying up/covering all the foreclosed houses. It would have been cheaper and 'stimulated' quite effectively while preventing squatting and tent cities etc. Some thought it might reinforce stupid house prices and there's the "moral" question of covering bad lending not teaching appropriate lessons (whereas at the corprorate level such things are fine).
I know very little on this, but this sounds like a good idea superficially to me. Just thought I'd run it by the learned.