Could "T2X: Shadows of the Metal Age" be better than TG and T2?

thief-outside-a-box on 1/10/2016 at 23:24

I'm currently replaying T2x and compared to T1/T2, the biggest flaw is the story. I can't help but feel that I spent 7 missions on those pathetic smugglers which could instead have been done in two, shifting the viewpoint to what came after.

To put so much focus on the smugglers while at the same time playing them down heavily resulted in me then and now constantly asking myself: Why does Zaya not just take them out herself and instead risks life and limb on her convoluted plan?

downwinder on 2/10/2016 at 02:37

i will say i loved t2x but thief 1 will always be the best,i think thief gold was nothing more then 3 extra levels and 1 blooper level

so if i had to vote it would be

thief 1
thief 2
t2x
thief 3
thief gold

ofcourse this is not counting fan missions

thief-outside-a-box on 2/10/2016 at 11:12

@Albert great comment. :D
Yet tbf, Thief 1 had it's share of unfun missions as well. Or rather promising missions falling flat on their asses.
I remember the first time standing in front of Ramirez' mansion, producing new water arrows I deemed much necessary from my excited drool only to stumble in most likely the easiest-to-traverse-mansion in all of thiefdom. Lost City was a chore and the less we say about that design-debacle Undercover the better.

Which blows my mind regarding how the T2x-team recycled the gameplay/design of Undercover for the train station, and again, the AI is all over the place. Which is not their fault as it is the engine itself, but why retry this. Yet again, it is a project that has it's fun strengths as well, maybe I go once again Zombie hunting later on. :cheeky:

marbleman on 2/10/2016 at 11:32

Quote:

a giant love letter to Tracing The Courier

Where, exactly? There is one mission with following the smugglers, but it's not dull like TtC. The train station and the train ride are quite fun. Only the final part of the mission focuses purely on following the smugglers, but then again, it reminds me more of Assassins that TtC. The biggest complaint about Tracing I have is that you have to wait a minute until Mosley arrives to pick up that letter and there's nothing to do in the meantime. Nothing like that in T2X.

Quote:

But at least with Thief / Thief Gold, those not-thieving missions were at least fun.

Not all of them. The Haunted Cathedral (not to be confused with Return to the Cathedral) is my least favorite mission in TDP/TG. Lost City and Undercover are not much better. And the finale (Strange Bedfellows, The Maw) have nothing interesting to offer, apart from surrealism.

To me, T2X Down Among Dead Men is more exciting to play than T1 Bonehoard. DADM is one of the best undead missions I've played, actually.

Quote:

Yet tbf, Thief 1 had it's share of unfun missions as well. Or rather promising missions falling flat on their asses.
I remember the first time standing in front of Ramirez' mansion, producing new water arrows I deemed much necessary from my excited drool only to stumble in most likely the easiest-to-traverse-mansion in all of thiefdom. Lost City was a chore and the less we say about that design-debacle Undercover the better.

Well put.

Quote:

Which blows my mind regarding how the T2x-team recycled the gameplay/design of Undercover for the train station, and again, the AI is all over the place. Which is not their fault as it is the engine itself, but why retry this. Yet again, it is a project that has it's fun strengths as well, maybe I go once again Zombie hunting later on.

Come on, the train station is nothing like Undercover...

Purgator on 2/10/2016 at 12:08

The only trap I can identify here, is the trap of believing that your own personal tastes are a benchmark for how things should or should not have been regarding other's work. Personal tastes are excellent for steering you from the things you don't like to the things you enjoy. They should not be used as a soapbox to decry other people's hard graft.
This thread seems more concerned with how "cleverly" one can denigrate another's work for the entertainment or approval of others, rather than offering any kind of measured, insightful opinion.
Many of those who developed T2X still frequent these pages, so show a little respect. :)

Luthien on 2/10/2016 at 13:26

Actually, why do you folks play Thief if you hate more or less all its missions?

TannisRoot on 2/10/2016 at 14:21

I still rank Down Among Dead Men and The Cure among my favorite fan missions of all time.

thief-outside-a-box on 2/10/2016 at 14:32

Quote Posted by Purgator

As I give an example below, while tastes steer you, it's often not that things you like and don't are seperate, but rather intertwined. Staying clear off things I don't like would pretty mean not consuming anything, as at some point, the quality might/will drop. Especially long works like stories, series or games have their ups and downs.

Regarding insightful opinions: if you want/care, I can elaborate more in detail why the smugglers in T2x don't work for me.

Regarding respect, I think that respecting someone also means being honest with them/their work. But yes, while being direct being nice and not flaming/cursing/whatever should be a given.

Quote Posted by Luthien

Actually, why do you folks play Thief if you hate more or less all its missions?

Hate is too strong. Hate gets deserved, the missions I mentioned (Ramirez mansion/Lost City/Undercover) rather annoy/disappoint.

That aside, I replay good old thief because the other missions are soooo worth it. Not playing T1 would mean not playing Bafford/Cragscleft/Bonehoard/The Sword (!!) and freaking Rttc (!!!) which is one of my most beloved missions ever *loves* But that doesn't mean that I don't roll my eyes and have to restrain myself from pressing the "next-mission-combination" as soon as the difficulty screen for "Lost City" pops up.

That aside, it is excactly because I like/love some of those missions so much that I can't enjoy others. I'm sorry, but I can't imagine someone playing through T1, be it first time or replay and thinking after every mission "This mission was awesome! Just as awesome as the one before!". If you on the other hand would rate your least favorite T1 mission with "very good/near-excellent" and your most favorite with "excellent" then fine for you and keep enjoying thief as a whole, but I guess we won't come together on this.

Luthien on 2/10/2016 at 15:05

The magic of TDP/TG/TMA is not defined mainly by its missions. On average the missions were okay, no more that that. What really makes Thief stand out is the complete freedom it gives to the player (even to do things not anticipated by the developers or which they actively tried to prevent), the credibility of all of the the game's aspects and the immersion that goes along with it. And of course that you don't have to kill or hurt anybody in the game.

Alas, the series went downhill from the start, or let's say from TG. TMA has a less fascinating story, and opposition too much focused around the children. TDS ruined the interface, credibility and most of the immersion with bugs, comically twitching bodies, loot glint, respawning guards, tiny levels, load zones and so on. And let's not talk about this sad parody called Thiaf.

T2X was nice, but the American voice acting didn't work for me. Having to listen to American voices in a medieval game always makes me cringe. Fan missions in general have the problem that their authors were often too intent to force the player along one predefined path and taking away the freedom from the player (can't remember this about t2X though).

Personally I always wished there were less "monster" levels and more mansion type missions, but then the original game might not have been as fascinating as it was. On the first time through, I took two long breaks (many months) because I could not stand the undead levels (Cragscleft and Return to the Cathedral). Although I cannot say I actually ejoyed that, it's a memory going to stay forever.

downwinder on 3/10/2016 at 00:25

does anyone know if its possible to get the missions from t2x singley?